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-   -   Dunkirk (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28593)

randallscott35 03-28-2009 04:58 PM
Look, he got beat. The track is 2001 CD Derby which is sad but thems the brakes.

Sightseek 03-28-2009 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35
I thought he ran really well. Shame he may not make the Derby.
My heart started to race when he made that move.

Sightseek 03-28-2009 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I agree. I was very impressed with his run today. I just hope they don't rush him. If he somehow makes the Derby, great. But no need to get crazy trying to make it. It's a long year. Quality Road is also very talented, but on a fair track I think he gets beat. I'm not banking on Quality Road getting that trip again in the Derby either.
I don't think he would have been beat, but I agree that it's going to take one heck of an effort for him to win the Derby considering the strongest horses this year want to be on or near the lead.

This year is very exciting!

pgardn 03-28-2009 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linny
If he wins the Withers, depending on what happens in the Derby, the Preakness might be a good spot. Remember, alot of the "better" Derby colt that didn't win the Derby don't come back for the Preakness.

It's a smart move. I'm not sure this colt want's 9f, much less 10f in G1 company. I give them credit for not pressing to get to the Derby. If I had a colt like this I'd be looking at races like the $800k ungraded race at Sunland this weekend and others like it. While people are beating their horses up in a futile attempt at making graded earnings, I'd ship all over the place and run for huge purses while avaiding the "best" of the crop.
The Kentucky Derby is THE race.
You would do the right thing and not
get noticed. Which is sad. You refuse
to wear the giant silly hat and show
your cleavage. Shame, shame.

Maybe Steve should rename this site
the Preakness Trail. I would still visit.

justindew 03-28-2009 06:09 PM
People are gonna think I'm crazy for suggesting this but if we get down to the wire and it looks like Dunkirk won't get in, I would run him in the Derby Trial or the Withers. A runner-up effort in either MIGHT make the difference. And Don't Get Mad did it.

Bobby Fischer 03-28-2009 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Maybe Steve should rename this site
the Preakness Trail. I would still visit.
that sounds like one of those "Avis We Try Harder" commercials with the jet-packs...


on second thought... :D

slotdirt 03-28-2009 06:21 PM
Running in the Derby Trial is great and all, but does it get you any graded earnings?

justindew 03-28-2009 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt
Running in the Derby Trial is great and all, but does it get you any graded earnings?
Yes.

herkhorse 03-28-2009 08:06 PM
I thought the Derby trial was no longer graded, or did they change it back?

justindew 03-28-2009 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
It's a grade 3 again. Although there's a better chance of me growing wings and flying to the Derby Trial than there is of Dunkirk running in it.
I think you're right, unfortunately.

Again, Don't Get Mad did it.

justindew 03-28-2009 08:26 PM
Also, if they point for the Preakness, aren't they going to prep him somewhere between now and then?

I'm just sayin', running in the Derby Trial isn't a bad decision. At the very least it gives the options.

justindew 03-28-2009 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I know Don't Get Mad did it. It makes no sense to me though. You have a horse that has been lightly raced and you want him to run (he would have to win probably) in the Derby Trial and wheel back a week later in the Derby? They decided to gamble with his chances today and I guess you could say they lost. Although he might still make the field. We'll see.
He could also run 2nd in the Withers and make the KY Derby, probably.

Scurlogue Champ 03-28-2009 08:30 PM
I'm with Dew on this one, I would run him in the trial regardless.

That race should be a field of horses tightening up for the big one.

It has turned into a ****ing joke of a race.

Scav 03-28-2009 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ
I'm with Dew on this one, I would run him in the trial regardless.

That race should be a field of horses tightening up for the big one.

It has turned into a ****ing joke of a race.
Its 10 days before the Derby, your out of your mind thinking it is a tightener....

Scurlogue Champ 03-28-2009 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
Its 10 days before the Derby, your out of your mind thinking it is a tightener....
Only in America would it not be considered one.

10 days is plenty of time.

Is the 14 day difference between the Preakness and Derby that much different? Or is that special?

Scurlogue Champ 03-28-2009 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
Its 10 days before the Derby, your out of your mind thinking it is a tightener....
I thought it was 7 days before.

Didn't it used to be?

Scav 03-28-2009 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ
I thought it was 7 days before.

Didn't it used to be?
7 days, my bad, way back when sure, but the animal has changed....

Sightseek 03-28-2009 08:36 PM
They could also go into the Lexington.

Scav 03-28-2009 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35
Look, he got beat. The track is 2001 CD Derby which is sad but thems the brakes.
Yo Randall, what's up with resurgence, good to have you back bro....

Scurlogue Champ 03-28-2009 08:37 PM
The animal hasn't changed at all. The approach has.

Scav 03-28-2009 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightseek
They could also go into the Lexington.
If they were to do it, the Lexington makes more sense, but they are going to sit on the horse. They have probably a 50/50 chance of getting in....

Scav 03-28-2009 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ
The animal hasn't changed at all. The approach has.
The 'understanding' has changed, trainers and owners realize that by spacing out races, they get more efficient and productive runs.

Scurlogue Champ 03-28-2009 08:46 PM
The understanding of what? The animal?

Check the Australian Group One Runners and their PP's to see how inefficient and unproductive 7 and 14 day spacing is.

Scav 03-28-2009 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ
The understanding of what? The animal?

Check the Australian Group One Runners and their PP's to see how inefficient and unproductive 7 and 14 day spacing is.
On dirt or turf?

And Austrailian competiton and US Competition is about 10 times different.

Cannon Shell 03-28-2009 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ
The understanding of what? The animal?

Check the Australian Group One Runners and their PP's to see how inefficient and unproductive 7 and 14 day spacing is.
If everyone was doing the same thing then others would do it too. Since the guys with the best horses are spacing races the rest of the sport follows along. If you have good horses and start running back quick or break a few down you risk losing your business. If someone were to start doing it and winning, the risk would be much more acceptable.

VOL JACK 03-28-2009 08:53 PM
Beyers:
Dunkirk 100
Q road 103

Scurlogue Champ 03-28-2009 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
If everyone was doing the same thing then others would do it too. Since the guys with the best horses are spacing races the rest of the sport follows along. If you have good horses and start running back quick or break a few down you risk losing your business. If someone were to start doing it and winning, the risk would be much more acceptable.
Gracias.

justindew 03-28-2009 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
At what price? Do you think it's just a coincidence he's made 3 lifetime starts by May of his 3 year old year? They paid a ton for him and he's bred to be any kind. If the game plan was Florida Derby-Kentucky Derby, and he doesn't get in, you wait the 2 more weeks and run in the Preakness. He ran his eyeballs out today. I just don't think it's in anyone's best interests to rush at this point. It's 2009, no one does what you are proposing anymore and there is a reason for it. The game here has changed, whether we like it or not.
No one cares about the dumb Preakness.

Scav 03-28-2009 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by justindew
No one cares about the dumb Preakness.
Racing purists like yourself (supposedly) sure think it is an important race

justindew 03-28-2009 10:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
Racing purists like yourself (supposedly) sure think it is an important race
I'm sure when Tabor and co. plunked down $3.7MM for Dunkirk they were thinking "this is our elusive Preakness horse, and he will avenge Thunder Gulch's loss."

Look, all I'm saying is that I think Dunkirk can make the Derby in a healthy way with one more start. And it would be a shame if he didn't make the field. I would run him in either the Derby Trial, Withers, or Lexington, in that order.

Scav 03-28-2009 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by justindew
I'm sure when Tabor and co. plunked down $3.7MM for Dunkirk they were thinking "this is our elusive Preakness horse, and he will avenge Thunder Gulch's loss."

Look, all I'm saying is that I think Dunkirk can make the Derby in a healthy way with one more start. And it would be a shame if he didn't make the field. I would run him in either the Derby Trial, Withers, or Lexington, in that order.
Most ridiculous, ridiculous, least ridiculous

DT: yeah, 2 races in 7 days, 16 furlongs, yeah, that is smart
Withers: Go from Florida, to New York, have to hit the board, then ship to KY.
Lexington: the most logical because of the 20 day spacing between the two, less amount of shipping also

justindew 03-28-2009 10:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
Most ridiculous, ridiculous, least ridiculous

DT: yeah, 2 races in 7 days, 16 furlongs, yeah, that is smart
Withers: Go from Florida, to New York, have to hit the board, then ship to KY.
Lexington: the most logical because of the 20 day spacing between the two, less amount of shipping also
DT: I mean, I hate to sound like a broken record, but Don't Get Mad did it. Could also serve as a prep for the Preakness is they decide to skip the Derby. And it's at CD, where he'll be.

Withers: Isn't this usually a small field though?

Lexington: Bigger field, and new surface.

justindew 03-28-2009 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
You're being silly now. I understand what you are saying, but it's just not realistic, no matter how many times you say it. Because they plunked down the 3.7 is why you don't push now. I realize how important the Derby is, but it's also not the end all be all. Do you think it's just a coincidence he's made 3 starts? Is it possible he's not the soundest of sorts? Your solution to that is to run him more frequently?
My entire argument is based on the premise that he IS sound and healthy. If he isn't, then of course they shouldn't run him.

Scav 03-28-2009 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by justindew
DT: I mean, I hate to sound like a broken record, but Don't Get Mad did it. Could also serve as a prep for the Preakness is they decide to skip the Derby. And it's at CD, where he'll be.

Withers: Isn't this usually a small field though?

Lexington: Bigger field, and new surface.
1 f'n horse in the last whatever years

Coach Pants 03-28-2009 11:40 PM
I think they should put him on the shelf until the JCGC. He looked awful tired and depressed heading back to the barn.


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