He's raced one time over the turf and you're making him the next Manila. What happens if he gets beat?

Same old song and dance.....it's like there is an echo in here...

EC's record and PP's speak for themselves. He towers over SU and the funny thing is...you know that to be true.

If SU is so good, why didn't Tagg keep him and Colonial and run in the VA Derby. I mean, that was only a Grade 2 $1,000,000 race..

Because Tagg is alsoa smart trainer and knows that the goal is a grade one win Kev, not a grade 2 at any price. A grade one win gets you autmatic liscnese to stand at stud and far outshadows the money in a grade 2 even if its a million. The Sec is the only grade one grass race for strictly three year olds and tagg knew this was the goal. But our brain damaged friend here(Bold Ruler) will say its ok for Tagg to do that, but not for pletcher to skip the million to try and get to his goal. Which basically makes Bold Ruler a spineless, know nothing hypocrite. But we already knew that so its no big deal.
Bottom line is that both Tagg and Pletcher did or are doing what is right in attempt to reach and pursue their main objectives and that of their owners.

Mike, is from July 15th to August 12th not enough time between races? Right at a month....what was wrong with entering in both?

You are dead wrong kev. Its the narrow three weeks between the two races at Colonial that kept him from doing that. Its just too quick back, especially with only 4 weeks to the next race out in Arlington. And think of the toll the extra shipping plays. They aren't machines kev, you can't just beat on them like that. Tagg made the right play.

Mike...IM NOT DEAD WRONG....I was asking a question, not making a statement. notice the little ? on the end of the sentence

Tagg did not make the right play by choice. He probably would have gone back to Colonial but there was an issue. Showing Up had a reaction to a panalog injection for his puncture wound that he had from months ago. Please don't go spreading that around. The horse is fine now.

As for grade 1's vs grade 2's for breeding, Showing Up is never going to be a great commercial stallion. He just isn't that well bred and nobody wants to breed to grass sires. The Secretariat isn't going to help him that much in the shed, he will have to win a BC Turf or a big grade 1 with older horses to really increase his value.

Hey Oracle, you should take what you just said and apply it to Songster. You said yourself--these horses are not machines.

Thats the dumbest thing I ever heard, Songster had two months off before that race, where is teh connection?
I used machine in reference to overracing a horse on short rest.

Showing Up raced off 2 weeks for the KD. He could have raced if healthy. He just had a minor problem. Tagg would have gladly picked up another $600K against the field he had previously destroyed, but he was looking out for the horse. Trust me, $600K is a lot of money to a small operation like Taggs.

Oh so now horses arent machines as long as they have a nice layoff--lol. A horse cannot fire their best race every time out regardless of the layoff. Again, you said it "these horses are not machines."

Yes a GOOD trainer like Dutrow or Pletcher has his horses sharp and ready with enough time between starts. Of course they are among the best.........

Well he just called me a spineless know nothing hypocrit, which we all already knew (LOL), but I think Oracle would have no problem getting into the club.

I am slowly becoming the biggest Albertrani fan in the world. Funny how the guy who trains the best horse we have seen in years is a little "dwarf" who is an idiot. Imagine how good the horse would be if that guy who hasn't yet won a Classic in 51 tries trained him. LOL.

Oh ok, so if Dutrow and Pletcher has a horse off the proper layoff then they are a lock to win. So their win% with a layoff of 2 months or more should be 100%--correct?

Richard E. Dutrow, Jr. 397 106 69 56 $4,804,901 26.7 58.2
Thomas Albertrani 103 22 16 10 $1,926,174 21.4 46.6

I don't know but Albertrani sure does look like he has done alright for himself. Albertrani seems to be making considerably more money per start than Dutrow.

Where is Dutrow's classic win? How about Pletcher's?

I dont recall them losing with a 1-5 shot in a graded stakes race. Please feel free to get back to me with your proof.

LOL!!! Dutrow has won a filly classic, the Coaching Club Oaks. hes also won the Breeders Cup Classic, something Albertrani will never do in my opinion. Hes also won the Met Mile, the Donn, the Woodward, The Prioress, and Breeders Cup Sprint. Also races Albertrani has never won.
Problem with guys like you know zero about the game is you try and use partial stats from one year to try and prove something. What yoiu end up proving is that you don't know a damn thing. Wake me up when Albertrani trains a champion.
Note- Pletcher has won too many grade ones that Albertrani will never win to list in this short space.

Filly Classic? So has Pletcher? Nobody cares (congratulations to you guys though). Albertrani has been in training for 2yrs and won a real Classic.

Wake you up when he trains a champion? He has the 3yr old champion now and the favorite for HOY.

The guy trains for Darley which means he is going to eventually win everything.

This is a funny post. If you are going to compare Dutrow, Pletcher and Albertraini then you have to make the playing field level. Look at each trainers first two years of training stats then make the comparison. I think that Albetrani would be head and shoulders above Dutrow and Pletcher when looking at their first two years of training.

I'm gonna go out on alimb and say that Albertrani is training a champion right now--they just haven't given him the statue yet...

You must have a bad short term memory. I do recall a horse named Bluegrass Cat who is trained by Pletcher losing to a horse called Deputy Glitters who is trained by Albertrani in the Grade III Tampa Bay Derby. Oh yeah, Bluegrass Cat was sent off as the 2-5 favorite. Deputy Glitters was 8-1.

Didnt Albertrani also beat Pletcher in the 2006 Grade II Ohio Derby. I also believe that High Cotton was the odds on favorite that day as well.

Knockout. Please somebody pick Oracle off the floor.

1) BG threw a shoe in that race, while he was still beat, he ran a monster race given the fact he was running with no grip

2) You guys all need to learn how to argue constructively, without name calling and basher. You are all grown men or growing men. While I understand that horse racing is competition on the highest level (horses, handicappers, owners) and the obvious tension that comes with a disagreement, have some respect for yourselves, and others. It is ok to differ in an opinion, but respect others opinions as well

I also believe Ashado lost a race last summer at Saratoga at very short odds. Lost to a Neil Howard horse. Must have been a graded stakes, no?

And in my opinion it shouldnt matter what the odds are, saying that this trainer doesnt lose any races when his horses are odds on really doesnt fly with me. The public isnt always right and occasionally creates odds on horses that are not all that. :cool:

Thank you, Tom. I agree completely and I wish that these guys could respect other's opinions.

Well you can't let losing a bet be an excuse for bashing a very good trainer. Chat rooms mean nothing, but that guy doesn't deserve the bashing he took, especially after his 2 horses ran huge over the weekend. He nearly won the Travers and the Go For Wand in a 24hr period.

Pletcher might have won the race last sunday but the 3-2 favorite Oonagh McCool finished last beaten 20+lengths...or was she 1-2 I forget

Me too..no one deserves to get beaten up over their opinion...regardless of what they believe.

BR no offense, but it's pretty funny when you say a chat room means nothing but yet on another thread you say the only reason you stick up for Showing Up so much is because your friends made fun of you for what you did or didn't do here......there's comedy in that.

A lot of bright people here, I just wish we could have sane objective conversations around here, but humans are emotional I guess.

In no other sport, does gambling affect people's opinions and emotions. We are all guilty of this, even though we dont mean to be. Gambling really drives horse racing. Its a simple fact.

JUST WHO THE HELL YOU CALLING EMOTIONAL BUDDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

I've been guilty...that's the only name I'll drop that wasn't singling out anybody.

Chat rooms mean nothing in the sense that they are just opinions, they aren't going to hurt anyone, but the point I was trying to make was that opinions about Albertrani on a chat site aren't going to make any difference, but the criticism doesn't need to get personal with the dwarf and other ridiculous comments. Say he sucks, he doesn't know what he is doing, but no need to attack the guy personally.

If Oracle is going to say things like "I hope for nothing but ill will for that bald little lowlife midget. Hes lucky he has fast horses because he cant train a dam. Hes a total moron." He better expect some people to stick up for the guy and bash Oracle right back.

I was trying to bring some levity...but I don't disagree with that statement at all.

I talked to Oracle about this via PM, and you notice how he has avoided this becuase the fact is he is pissed, any gambler/handicapper would given the circumstance.

This being said, you guys are beating this to death and the fact is that I feel he regrets even going down the path that he did. Lets let it die and continue to put all this energy to the future.....Bold, with all the typing you are doing, carpel tunnel is within your near future, make your posts worthwhile :)

The guy should just apologize for his ridiculous personal attacks. The one on me this morning was funny, but no need to attack a guy who doesn't post here and can't defend himself.

The more I type, the more I learn. I just invested pretty heavily into the business and I am trying to learn. My posts unfortunately (or some might say fortunately) will drop off significantly at the end of this week because we are just about done with the part of the project that lets me sit around on a computer all day. I actually have to start thinking again next week.

He made the right bet but the horse lost. It has happened to all of us when he make the correct bet but for whatever the reason we lose. Just because we lose doesnt mean that we all go off on a tagent and try to belittle a very capable trainer. Oracle asked me a question and I answered it with straight facts. I dont think I have ever called him a name, in fact I have always applauded his ability. I think Oracle regrets going down this path because he has been proven that trainers (good or bad) lose when their horse is the odds on favorite.

Would I bet mad that I lost a $5k pick 4---well no I wouldnt. The owness is on the bettor and it is that plain and simple. Now if I bet on a race and later I found out the outcome was fixed then yes I would be pissed. But there is never a reason to come on a chat room and belittle someone physical characteristics. Sure, you can question their training ability but calling someone a bald dwarf is sophomoric.

Bold Ruler,
You are one to talk. You bash people behind a keyboard and if you ever tried it in person I would blast you so far you wouldnt wake up for weeks.
Stick to rooting for horses you love.

Oh, I couldn't agree more.