JV hopped off, the horse didn't go down. Shame really. Of course this was a horse that had survived 3 fractures in the past.

Riot is spot on . Report what was happening instead of silence and cutting the tv shots away from the accidents .

Anybody else want to join the newest clique?

Yeah Sumitas you are spot on as well when you talk about how unsound a pedigree Wanderin Boy has, when he is running in a G1 at the end of his 7yo campaign.:rolleyes:

This thread is a catastrophic breakdown.

You see, this is exactly what is wrong with the sport, right here. You're not giving us enough information to go on and certainly not offering it fast enough for us to move on with our lives with a minimum of disruption.

Newest clique? Is that all we have to go on? What does this "new clique" entail, kind sir?

As you work for NYRA, who so clearly clutch on to the vital information we crave the way Golem did his "Precious" in the Rings Trilogy, let me be the modern day Prometheus (sorry Frankenstein) who brings fire to mere mortals.

After a quick run-through of the posts on this thread from the two charter members, here are the membership requirements for what I have dubbed the "What Just Happened?" clique:

(a) must have a rubber neck
(b) must have a lax sensitivity to the dimension of time, such that it is believed that all information is instantaneous and complete when called for
(c) must be suspected of trampling the poor man at the Long Island Wal-Mart on Friday
(d) must have had Win Only bets on Seeking The Gold in the Haskell, Travers, BC Classic, and Met Mile
(e) must have no access to result charts or track reports from various racing publications (in print or via the internet)
(f) must believe that Tom Durkin is the Word and that all Life fails to "happen" until He speaks of its "happening"
(g) must accept being told its "raining" when actually being pee-ed upon if it means that "everything is OK"
(h) must consume copious quantities of amphetamines

and...really the only one that matters:

(i) must be pissed that they're not in the loop

Can we have pg1985 chime in on this?

Be careful what you wish for...

so you would rather they kept the camera on the horse, perhaps while it's suffering, and blathered on about myriad ways a horse can break down? yes, everyone wants to know about the horse-mainly if it's ok-but how often do we complain about a rush to say something, only to have 'news' reports turn out wrong?

it doesn't matter really what they do, you can't please everyone obviously-so there'll always be complaints from someone. so, personally i'd rather they be cautious, respectful, and tell us what they can when they can. everyone watching knows what it means when a jock pulls a horse up, he's in distress for some reason. i'd imagine they'll tell you when they can, no one is trying to keep state secrets or anything.

In general, I do not like horses these days that win at 9f so early in their careers. They receive so much hype early in their 3yo seasons and more often than not, don't come close to justifying it. The way this horse won the Remsen did not impress me at all. I don't see him as having much of a future in most races but wouldn't count him out of the Belmont picture provided he stays healthy. He just doesn't seem to have much speed and speed is vital in today's game. There just won't be many chances to get around in 24, 49, 1:14 at the stakes level.

I'm not buying the hype either. I am, however, happy to hype Quality Road. That horse is the real deal.

exactly. This isn't NASCAR. I don't go to the races to watch breakdowns.

BTW is right. They broadcast (I presume) from a studio, with a fixed camera. Unlike ESPN or even TVG which has mobile cameras and mobile mics, Jason and Andy (and to a lesser extent, Jan) are in one spot only. They don't have the ability to send a man out to the scene or to get comments from the vet or others tending the horse or rider. They can't report anything that is not an official release from the press office.
I do agree that a simple comment from Tom, "X appears to have pulled up in distress and is being tended to..." would be appropriate.
When a rider falls, it's clear from his voice that Tom (and John as well) is often shaken. If the rider gets up, he usually mentions it. As much as I love horses, I can't equate human and animal injury. That said, a single sentence from the one person with the best vantage point, would at least acknowledge what has happened.

You can only speak to what you know. If I'm calling a race and I see a rider stand-up after a spill I will often say, "Pleased to report that [name] is on his feet and has appeared to escape serious injury for the moment." The same for a horse if he/she is up and galloping around with no significant issues apparent. I truly cannot say anything beyond that and doing so would be inappropriate. Word on the health and status of a jockey or horse needs to be official word - and I think this all applies to the events of yesterday.

Riot said nothing of that sort. You want to see TV shots of downed horses, I don't. That definitely should not be shown.

Like most of us I watch alot of different track feeds. Some do a good job of mentioning what happens if there's an accident during a race, some don't.

NYRA did a terrible job yesterday, completely ignoring what happened in big stakes races - twice - and not even mentioning it. IMO, not good enough by lengths.

Sumitas said nothing of the sort . I don't want to see shots of downed horses . Although Eight Belles comes to mind . I would appreciate a factual statement that a horse is lame after the wire . Just like you state Riot . Let's not make a mountain out of a mole hill .

FINALLY, you and Stevie Belmont at Pace Ad are in agreement. :rolleyes:

Even Joe Obvious is right occasionally.

a 7 year old who showed up for 5 years in stakes.. What a an unsound piece of shieat..Sumi you are priceless

I disagree completely with you on this one. The pace was slow, but he didn't just plod around at the end- when asked, he ran the final 3F in :36 flat. Compare that to the girls who went :39 over the same final 3F. He has shown ability to rate and relax. Soundness is my biggest concern, given that he's by Unbridled's Song, otherwise I see nothing that would dissuade me from saying he's my top Derby selection at this point.

I feel that any horse worth their weight in salt should be able to finish in 36 if they've been allowed to go the first 6f in 1:14 and change. He didn't use any energy at all early so by rights, he should have had plenty left. By the way, the difference in the final 3f of the two races is not as pronounced as you describe it here. There wasn't a three-second difference in the two races.

Remsen
Old Fashioned led through 6f in 1:14.18 and finished in 1:50.33 for a final 3f of 36.15

Demoiselle
Springside was last through 6f in 1:12.65 (about 6 3/4 lengths back for an approximate time of 1:13.73 using .16 per beaten length) and finished in 1:51.71 for a final 3f in 37.98

That's a difference of 1.83 seconds, not the three you suggested.

Your math is correct, I was referring to the :39 difference between the calls. Springside is obviously the only one that did any running at the end.

So by the way, she ran 6F in only 2 lengths faster than OF and finished 11 lengths slower. I guess she's not worth her weight in salt.

Wandering Boy
 

Steve Haskin wrote a lovely obit for Wandering Boy

http://racing.bloodhorse.com/article/48251.htm

Sadly, we'll never know. But while I liked her race, I wasn't overly impressed by it. But I do like it more when I can see horses quicken like she did and win after a slow pace. That's more impressive for me than watching a horse set a crawling pace and run away.

Wait a second....you aren't suggesting the Demoiselle was a slow pace.....are you?

That's just an opinion formed looking at the race. I admittedly didn't look at the other results from the card other than the Remsen and the Cigar to know what the track was playing like so I can't say with any certainty that the pace was slow. In general, fractions of 48.20 and 1:12.65 wouldn't be considered anything other than slow as far as I'm concerned. Of course, the looked like they had booster rockets on compared to the Remsen.

There were only two two-turn races but I would guess it was a strong pace.

Is it so important to correctly quantify the pace? (Other than noting that it was significantly faster early than the colt race.)

Isn't it enough to note that she got just about as good a setup as one would want? Under those circumstances, does it matter?
Fast or slow, she'd still have to show that she could do it in a race without just the right number of moves to wipe it out.


I suppose it does if they were crawling; but then the others wouldn't be much at all.

You are a horse salesman . I don't expect you to know anything or admit anything about unsoundness . Refer to post # 41 .

He's also a 7yo that's had 25 career races. That doesn't scream soundness.

Your record remains intact. You are never right about anything.

How many 9f 2yo races are there out there? The Remsen and off-and-on the Laurel Futurity (which can be regarded as a second tier race).

Horses to hit the board in the Remsen in the last 20-odd years:

Java Gold (Travers et al), Talinum (Flamingo et al)
Scan (Pegasus)
Pine Bluff (Preakness et al)
Go For Gin (Kentucky Derby)
Thunder Gulch (Kentucky Derby et al)
Skip Away (BC Classic et al)
Coronado's Quest (Travers et al), Halory Hunter (Blue Grass)
Empire Maker (Belmont et al)
Read The Footnotes (Fountain of Youth)
Bluegrass Cat (Haskell), Flashy Bull (Stephen Foster)
Nobiz Like Showbiz (Wood Memorial et al), Zanjero (KY Cup Classic et al)
Court Vision (Hollywood Derby et al)

The reason I said these days is because the game has changed up a bit. I remember back when Java Gold won it, he had already showed himself to be competitive in shorter races against top horses, showing that he had some element of speed. Actually, when you look at it, even the three most recent ones that you mentioned had all won or ran well in graded stakes at a mile or less prior to the Remsen win. I guess what I was trying to get across (and in this case it was my point but I probably shouldn't use this race in general) is that I don't like horses that make their first significant impact at 9f. Show me that you've got some speed against good horses.

I didn't specifically mean only as 2yo's but just early in their careers. We get those 9f maiden and allowance races at Gulfstream for 3yo's and they usually receive an undeserving amount of hype because people think they are ahead of the game because they've won at a long distance so early and the added distance of the Derby should only improve them. Then what ends up happening is they start facing horses with real speed and they don't end up living up to the hype.

I'd go along with this bit here, at least as far as impact in the Triple Crown is concerned. But even then, perhaps a lot of those type horses not following through in the Derby, etc. has to do with them being "late bloomers" not quite ready for a tough trio of races as opposed to them not having any real talent. Unfortunately, they may not pan out down the road, either, but again that's easily attributed to being fried from the Derby trail, not necessarily because they're overhyped.

In any case, while I would agree that the Remsen was a "gimme" race that reveals very little about his ultimate ability, Old Fashioned did win his debut sprinting (at 13-1 odds no less), and apparently the 2nd and 3rd place horses came back to win next out, which in this day and age of light campaigns has to substitute for showing stakes class at a shorter distance. Given the recent slew of good horses that originated from Delaware (Soto, Afleet Alex, Barbaro, High Limit, etc.), its not as much of a stretch as it appears.

Those were the only two turn races on the card, but it's important to note that 48.20 and 1:12.65 isn't that slow at Aqu at 9f. It'd probably equate to 46 4/5 and 1:10 4/5 at Hollywood (also a 9f oval), for example. For whatever reason, routes on the main at Aqu have very slow times. 1:13.10 is the average 6F time for all races at 9F, and 1:12 3/5 would fall right in the median of graded stakes @ 9F.