I do not know enough about the trainer to make comment. But what I will comment on, is the fact that horses cannot talk. A trainer is so very important in being able to not only tell the level of fitness of a horse, and putting him in the appropriate races given current ability and fitness, but what kind of training will best suit the individual horse to get him to the desired level. If a horse shows vast unexpected improvement, how do we adjust the goals. If a horse shows great early promise and then tops out, how to rethink goals, and having enough respect and guts to tell the owners what you believe to be the truth about their million dollar investment that will no longer be able to take on the top level like once thought.

Think about humans in the top level of track. They all have trainers. And the top runners can tell the trainers when they are sore, what hurts, And they just dont feel good today, something aint right, im slipping badly on this surface, I need a friggin drink. Horses cannot talk.

This takes extraordinary people. The level of competition in the top tier is way too tough and fluid. Very talented horses pop out of nowhere. Good horses dont improve or dont want to run. I could screw up Bernardini. So could everyone else on this board.

I again think this is a case of the sage complex we have witnessed so often: taking an extraordinarily bred animal (which in itself is horribly inexact) that looks great moving and has a few extrordinary races, and proclaiming him the next great. Happens all the time and it is fun to write about.

Now don't get me wrong. Bernardini is a good horse, but I have my reservations about him. Yes, he looked very impressive in his last two races, BUT didn't Sin Min look impressive in his Keenland romp? Didn't Bellamy Road look impressive in his romp as a three year old? There are more. AA looked impressive in a lot of races but you all are saying Bernardini is better than him too.

I guess that is why I am hesitant to get on this horse's bandwagon. Nothing to do with his trainer, owners, etc... Just want to see him go up against better competition before I title him "HOY" or even "Great".

Oracle,

I think you are a pretty sharp guy who sometimes posts some really dumb things. Name calling is not going to get your money back on the bet. Betting horses is tough becasue no matter what they can lose. I am not defending Albertrani at all, but the alternative is to not have trainers give any comment to DRF.

People are wrong all the time, even the great trainers. Pletcher sent out Oonagh Maccool who was short. Or was she? Sometimes horses get a little bug that doesn't show up until after the race. Have you ever heard "She came out of the race with a little fever."? It happens.

I feel like you know enough about the game to know better than to call people names because you lost money. Please continue to provide valuable insight on this forum, but stop posting things you will later regret having said.

I reiterate strongly, the man is a liar or incompetent. Its either one or the other. I always insert and asterisk and disclaimer that if the horse has a bug or entraps or bleeds or gets injured that all comments on a poor performance are off the table. This case is no different. If the horse emerges with a problem than I take back every word about it. The man lied or he misjudged the fitness of a top flight animal. Its inexcusable and unprofessional. Missing a bug like Pletcher did and Ritchey did with Alex is quite understandable. Saying that the horse is ready to run and you have to run em wwhen they are ready if you are indeed prepping is just lying. The alternative is to tell the truth or not comment, not to lie.

First of all, you are whining because you lost a bet, nothing more and nothing less.

So, trainer's are suddenly accountable ( in your world that is ) for everything they say. Good to know. Then, perhaps Dutrow should be held accountable for saying, in print, that Wild Desert was the best horse he had been around since Saint Liam. Boy did he defraud the poor betting public who were stupid enough to listen to him and bet Wild Desert in his next two ( losing ) efforts.

Try handicapping and blaming yourself when you lose for a change. Might make you reevaluate some of your handicapping principles and, believe it or not, strengthen your game.

Oracle, go look at his stats. 21% and 48% in the money. The man has only being publicly training since 2004. Mandella is only 11% win and Mott is 21% win. He was the head assistant trainer for Mott in New York. He has handled such horses of Daylami, Street Cry, Cigar, Sakhee, Fantastic Light and Imperial Gesture. I would say those are some pretty good horses. So dont be mad because you lost some money. Dont be mad because his 1/9 shot lost. Many of trainer has sent out a 1/9 and lost. And you have said before that horses arent machines and you have said that trainers are alwasy going to tout their horses in the press. Now Oracle, come up with some concrete data as to why Albertrani sucks. Tell me one horse that he has screwed up--dont give me just one race.

I can see we have a new cage match forming

It looks like it is over before it began. I too would be upset if a 1-10 shot lost costing me $5K, but he has no argument here. The guy is a very good trainer. The Arabs don't just let any joker train their horses.

Pletcher gets the best stock period, Albertrani has done very well with the horses he has received, maybe if he hires Dr. Allday he too will reach the next plateau.

Thanks, next time I'm looking for a grade one horse to buy I will think of those things.

LOL!!!!
Never said he was a joker, but hes not in the game's elite.

The arabs spread their horses around to everyone......

Apparently in England, every trainer has some Arab owned horses.

I note you are naming horses he has "been around". Completely unfair. Asst trainers do the majority of gruntwork but don't call the shots as far as training goes. That responsibility lies within the trainer. Mott trained Cigar, not anyone else. He made the calls. The guy who makes the calls is the guy who gets the glory or is the goat. In my opinion Don Zimmer had as much to with the Yankees winning those World series as Torre did. But Torre is the guy who had to make the calls.

He has been training less than 2 years. Of course he isnt going to be in the elite. Give the man some time. He is doing one heck of a job so far.

And when I say "every trainer" I don't really mean every one literally.

I guess Pletcher lied about Oonagh Macool being the best mare he ever trained, or she didn't get her juice.

Ok so tell me about the great training jobs he has done in his name please. If he has done so many gret jobs it should be childs play to rattle them off your head.

Also I will bet any of you that before the Kings Bishop or Songster's next race that Albertrani tells the press that Songster was short before the Amsterdam. Anyone want that bet?

Again, he has only been training 2 years. You cant say if it is good or bad. But from the stats, he is doing a pretty good job. Time will only tell.

With what horses? Other than Bernadini please name one.

So your new position is now that he hasn't been training long enough to tell and that only time will prove it? Ok, I accept that. But thats a change in your stance from five minutes ago when you said he was doing so well. I guess being challenged to specifically name some horses brought this on when you couldnt name any?

From his stats he is doing well. I can only judge by the stats over the past two years. But he is doing very well. Time will tell if he is going to be in the elite of he is going to be like Tagg, Cole Norman etc etc. My stance hasnt changed a bit. I think he is a good trainer and the numbers back that up.

You think Cole Norman is an elite trainer?

I loved when he would ship into the place that was formerly a real race track Keeneland, it was fold city...

Well he has/had Balleto, Deputy Glitters, Berbardini, Songster, River Street and Silvestris

NO NO NO and NO. I was saying that time will tell if Albertrani is going to be part of the elite of he is was going to be like Cole Norman or Tagg--trainers who are good at what they do but arent in the elite.

Cigar and Sakhee were ok horses. LOL. If you mean horses he actually was the trainer of, well he has a grade 1 winner in Balleto, and another in Bernardini, and Deputy Glitters won the TB Derby and OH Derby. Not bad for a guy who started less than 2yrs ago on his own.

I see noone wants the bet that he says to the press before the horses next start that Songster was short before the Amsterdam. Smart boys. I never said you guys were dumb.

Well of course he is going to say that--lol. That is the correct politcal response to give. Heck, I would give it--lol.

I'll take your bet mike--I think he will say that the track was deep or heavy and the horse didn't handle it--much easier to do that than back peddle about the horse's level of readiness.

Tell you what, when he tells us all how short the horse was for the Amsterdam before his next race I will post the quote alongside his comments before yesterday's race in the DRF and then you can decide if hes a liar or just plain incompetent. Because if he actually believed what he said hes incompetent. If he didn't hes a liar.

My bad, I misread it...

You know Blackthroat. A few years back, maybe 7-9 years ago a guy up here at the track had a monster pik-6 going with a Frankel filly in the Ballerina. he had singled her and Bailey was aboard. She was a very short price. I felt she was overbet and wound up hitting the race when Bailey had no choice but to go inside down the lane and got in traffic trouble. The guy got beat out of a horrible score and sent so far as to blame Bailey and scream at him. I felt for the guy. I was sittiing in a box near him when it happened and it was awful to watch. Its up to debate whether the filly would have won or not with a cleaner trip. I believe it was Honest Lady who was beaten and I think it was a Shug filly who beat her. I don't know if you remember that race or not. Do you think that guy had a legitimate gripe to be mad at Bailey? I think he did. I also think I have a legitimate gripe with a clown who sends out a short horse in a grade two race and tells everyone how ready the horse is.

Anyone that knows ANYTHING about watching races knows very clearly that Songster did not get a good ride and his loss, in the context of this race, is due to a premature move. But, that decision can only be formed through objectivity, something which is SEVERLY lacking in this thread. What this thread IS filled with is a lot of losing horseplayer rant.

Here's what I think, the author of this thread had a tip on a 43-1 shot, bet nothing to win on him while playing Pick-4s and singling Songster. Instead of pehaps reexamining the overall intelligence of that, it has been concluded that Tom Albertrani is, among many things, a liar and an overrated trainer.

Sounds like a sane and logical progression to me.

Here's a tip, and I can make it because I am a winning horseplayer.....winning horseplayers waste little to no time blaming others for their invariable mistakes. They learn from them and become better players.

Do you want this to denegrate into a pissing match about racetrack behavoir. Think VERY carefully before answering this.

Dream Supreme, trained by Bill Mott ( with assistant trainer Tom Albertrani ) trained her, and excuse me if I beg to differ that Bailey had " no choice " about taking the rail. It is, however, a 100% lie that I yelled at Bailey. Listen carefully - A 100% LIE!

You have to remember that everytime there is a guy losing the race, there is somebody who cashed the ticket on the winner. The people that played Court Folly did ok here. Somebody made money. Betting these 1-10 shots is ridiculous. No horse should ever be that short of a price.

I had no tip on him. I felt Biancone's horse could be beat because he had an inside post and thought that Hushion's wreck of a favorite in the 7th could be beat as well. So I spread 7x4x1x8. I though the last race was impossible as well so I tossed only the 2 and 6.
I certainly know a thing or two about watching races, its quite vital in spotting potential purchases which is what I do.
The horse was dead short and I believe he will say as much in coming days or weeks. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the complete bs he spoke about how ready he was. Like i said, he either lied or misjudged his fitness level. Top trainers do lie, top trainers rarely misjudge fitness levels of graded stakes horses so badly. If he was actually just lying i have more respect for him!!!!

Actually I was speaking about a friend of Zitos from NYC. Guy had an absolute meltdown after the race and during it. He was live that day with Frankel and I guess it was Mott not Shug who won. I remember hitting the race because Nick had seen the winner train or something like that and we bet her and hit an exacta or tri or something like that. Nicks friend was not quite so pleased with the outcome as we were.

Every time I hear Dream Supreme, I think of that Cheap Trick song...Dream Police. "The Dream Police are coming to arrest me. The Dream Police they live inside of my head." It must be painful when that songs come on the air to anyone who lost out on a score on that horse.

And Leparoux really blew the ride on that favorite in the race Baxter won. That was atrocious. Frenchy's horse should have won by 4. He should be slapped for that ride.

And actually Blackthroat Lansdon and I lost a tough pick-6 last year which paid over 100 grand because I missed Indian Vale. I blamed only myself for tossing her based on a slow sheet number debut and disregarding the breeding/trainer angle. I remember talking with you about it last year. I do not blame trainers/jocks when I lose with regularity. But that horse was dead short yesterday and he should be ashmaed of himself for either thinking he wasnt or representing that he was.