i believe it has already been raised, and will go up again next year. problem is, the national min wage isn't really fair-it should be based on area-i doubt someone in l.a. can survive on the same wage as someone here in arkansas.

For what it's worth, and not too much I would think...I feel like the min. wage is a good thing.

Well have you looked at mine...... :p

Top feline predator.....:D

btw good pic of geeker, better than his day after the BC...poor kitty.

Yes Hossy I think it's time to put that grizzly bear back up there!!!

:{>: I just took it

We agree again. It is a good thing.

Good...I'd much rather hold hands with you than argue.




You were upsetting me in the James thread...and I feel wounded about that reaction to you-----the world isn't right that way.


Now I have to go home.









Oh.



I am home.

Ok.... now try for the nudie picts..I think you are in!

I don't think the time is quite right,Geeker.





Of course...I have found it never is around here.



But oh well.

The minimum wage is supposed to be the very least people can survive on. If you don't raise it to make up for the increased cost of living, then you're really reducing someone's salary. If you want to keep down the minimum wage, then you're really saying you want to reduce the real salary of the least paid workers. That's why most Republicans want to keep the minimum wage down. They want to form a 2 class society. That's exactly what keeping the minimum wage low does. They sell it as a way to provide more jobs. Yes, a lot of bad paying jobs. They sell it by saying a bad job is better than no job. Do it their way, and you will have just a 2 class society. Everything they preach (including wanting a static minimum wage) is a recipe for making a 2 class society. That's why the words increase and raised are used when really it's just an adjustment for an increased cost of living. Are they really giving people an actual raise in their standard of living? No. You're allowing them to keep up. Republicans want them to fall behind. They think they deserve to fall behind. That's what they are saying when they want to keep it static.

God.

Now I am going ho....to another room.


He's going to comment on me now---you watch.

There's that guy again. White on rice n' gray on mice.

:)

OK,SM.....now say...''I am a fat moo cow."


And then say----moo.

there is a long standing (i.e. decades long) and broad consensus among economists that minimum wage laws hurt the very people they are supposed to help by distorting the labor market.

alternates like the earned income credit and general welfare accomplish what you think minimum wage is supposed to do without causing a loss of available jobs.

minimum wage doesn't just prevent employer's from buying labor at a market price. it stops people from selling their labor at a rate where they could get a job, learn a skill, and find better employment with their experience.

i mean, screw a living wage. if minimum wage actually works to an employee's benefit, why don't we just raise it to $250/hour and we can all be rich.

That is so unfair.

I'm quite disappointed in you.

okay. $350/hour.

Time and a half over 40.

Really,though....and I'm not a dem nor rep nor libertarian nor independent......ah just is.....but I think antagonists get carried away with min. wage.

it's here to stay regardless.

but if you can imagine what would happen to jobs at a $250/hr minimum wage, is it that hard to think there might be one or two less positions available at $10/hour?

that's the economic argument. i'm not hard headed or hearted. but i think the idea a minimum wage helps the poor is flawed.

I guess I'm not seeing what you mean.

You are smarter than me and I'm not being a wise guy ...so can you say it a different way?

there wouldn't be a lot of jobs around if an employer had to pay $250/hour.

small employer's are the ones really hurt by a minimum wage. if they're barely profitable paying 10 employee's $8/hour and the minimum wage is raised to $10, a lot of them will have to figure out a way to make a go with 8 employee's or just go out of business altogether.

raising the earned income credit on federal taxes accomplishes the same thing raising the minimum wage is supposed to do (establish a minimum income level for working people) without driving marginal business's out of the employment market.

Uh..OK.

But nothing is ever going to solve to 100%.


I don't know if I buy the theory. All competitors would have to pay the same and that would reflect in selling price.


I think a place would have to be in the throes to go belly up with a MW increase.

So I do can't help but to think it's good.

Oh...I don't know anything about the eic.



I'm not for getting killed on taxes,but do think people shouldn't have to have it so rough for work that can be pretty tough. So maybe if I understood eic I might even say both are good. I still don't quite see where so many businesses would be hurt.

mort-

if i get a raise but i have to pay more for everything i buy as a result, did i really get a raise?

i'm not against establishing a minimum income for working people. i just think there's better ways of doing it. the earned income credit and welfare don't cause unemployment. the minimum wage does.

but screw it. we both need to stop this.

i'm enjoying your work elsewhere too much.

OK...I just see it as those people getting more in the net run. I'm not at all sure how many min. wage earners there are who are beyond high school.



Too kind..but I feel my work has dribbled off to almost nothing anymore.

I call this a draw...or a win for you. I'm not sure.

look. i essentially wound up agreeing with toast. there were no winners here.

You










thud

I think if you use common sense you would see that what would happen is the exact opposite of what was described early in the thread. Working single mothers would lose jobs to teenagers that would work for much less(because they often have less expenses.)The end result of killing the minimum wage is that teenagers, who often are only looking for supplemental income to pay for cars, parties, etc. take work away from those who are trying to pay the rent or support a family. Face the facts, we have guys getting women pregnant, and moving on to the next woman that craves a badboy. Do you really want to skimp on the salary of the one person in charge of raising that child? Your only shot at avoiding a punk being raised lies with her. I think we can agree if she starts on welfare, then she'll probably have another kid. I also think part of a country's overall reputation around the world lies in how it's worst off live. People want to live here. They want to travel here. Sure, we could treat people like they did at the end of the 19th century(your "market" crap that doesn't work..it's been tried.) Most of the stuff that Conservatives or cheap Independent types want to do have been tried, and they caused poverty. We can do it again, and you'll get the same results. Believe it or not, these things came about as a solution to a problem. What you want to do is try something that has been proven to create poverty(market driven stuff.) That abuse of workers at the end of the 19th century etc. was exactly what you would like to do. Fortunately others don't want to create that poverty. You think you want just 2 classes, but I doubt you would find it as great as you think. Try Haiti etc.

I don't see how doing away with the minimum wage would do anything but turn us into the type of countries that you say companies leave to go to. You really want to become Mexico etc? So classy!! Can't wait.As far as the EITC goes, it's adjusted for inflation, and the minimum wage isn't. They compliment each other. As far as your complaint about small businesses not being able to afford it etc., I think much larger tax break incentives need to be involved in the situation you're talking about 8-10 low paid employees. The minimum wage is necessary. We need to be more creative in helping the smaller businesses afford it.

If you want a success story using slightly increased salaries for "manual" labor, try the hamburger chain most of us like a lot out here(IN-N-OUT.) They get high quality from their employees.That work is considered unskilled, but try the food at Jack n the box. O.K.? It may be unskilled, but it's important that it be done right. They pay a little more, but the increased results they get are due to that increase in pay. If you don't believe me, wait until they get taken over, and reduce their pay. Their prices aren't more than places that pay their employees less. That's because they are at least twice as busy, because their employees are putting out better food.

so, wages go up, which means cost of living increases, which means the min wage wouldn't be high enough.
i agree, the EIC helps where min wage may not. no one gets laid off because of the EIC-because it doesn't affect the bottom line of a small employer.

and i believe that the poor here have a pretty high standard of living, esp compared to the poor in other countries.
most poor have a car, tvs, etc. there isn't anyone starving here, is there? unless it's someone who is clinically insane and living on the street-who refuses to get help, or really is incapable of seeking help.

look who picks up the bill for the costs of increasing eic

I don't really think it's that one for one-ish.


The min. wage has been around for a loooong time now.Up until just a iddy biddy ago the country seems to have survived this poisoning effect on the economy.Really---if you read your tripe and the tripe supplied by others,the min. wage should have bankrupt us 20 years ago.


Now I know the last min. wage increase has caused this financial crisis we now face----but I think it's just one a them things.

I think it's those maximum wage earners that may be the ones to watch out for.

They are sneaky mothah fucl<ahs.

It's to help the poorer out.



The maximum wage earners are the ones who will help the country out.They are good to the bone nice people.




OK?





Dannie?....simple?

MOTHAH FUCl<AH...I mean..FACT:The last MW increase caused 70% of all companies to go out of business :mad: .


MO...FACT: Over NINETY % of all MW earners had to file bankruptcy over that same increase:mad: .


FACT:Congress is now trying to destroy the MW. It's the only sure fire way to end this current financial crisis:mad: .




GODDAMMITY!

Well they better do something fast. This current Minimum Wage Crisis is killing this country...and I want something done about it!!




:mad:

SportyFans:) Let me give you an example...OK?


Rita Smith live in PoorTown.She just took a job as a drive thru perthon at the Mickey's in RichTown. Why? Because her husband lost his job due to Max.Wage Earner tomfoolery and PoorTown doesn't have a Mickey's. Why? Because poor people can't afford Mickey's.OK?


Now Muffy Chippy pulls up to the drive thru in her GIANT size Hummery-Poo.She has her 4 kid rug destruction team with her.Rita gives Muffy her order.....10 BigMac's ,10 large fries and 10 chocolate shakes. The Chippy's love their lunchy-poo.


And now Muffy starts her act. THIS IS COLD!! TAKE THIS CHEESE OFF THIS BIG MAC!! I SAID DOUBLE WIDE FRIES!!! YOU STUPID BITCH!!! Muffy then starts throwing food at Rita...and then peels out of the drive thru leaving 80 feet of Skids Mothers marks.



So...Rita is kinda stressed...but feels good in that she is getting a min. wage increase. She knows the store may have to raise prices, but she's OK with that because they are too poor to eat out.


She knows people like Muffy will be paying all the freight.



This make her smile.


:)