Randy Moss, who should know better, called Dancing Forever a "she" several times. I wanted to scream.

The overhead camera angle drove me nuts - why try to reinvent the wheel? When I watch a baseball game, the best and simplest shot is from center field. Period. I don't need razzle dazzle to watch a race - just let me see the horses.

To increase interest in any sport you need the following-

1) Recognizable Stars, racing has none because the value at stud far outweighs the risks of racing long term.

2) A clean atmosphere, 90% of the racetracks in the USA are dumps. These places are not worthy of people with kids. If people are not in tune with taking their kids to the races, you lose the younger generations, which is your future.

3) No cheating, every person I know who is not experienced(and just about all those I do know who are experienced) with horse racing automatically thinks that the entire industry is rigged.

1. Secretariat (maybe the most famous horse of all time) retired to stud after his three year old year.

2. Some of the biggest dumps I have ever been in include the Boston Garden, Wrigley Field, Veterans stadium, and Shea stadium. Anyone have a problem bringing kids there?

3. MLB, NFL and NBA havent exactly struggled since the steroids era and crooked refs have been exposed. How exactly would you or anybody else "know" if people in the game are cheating or not? How do you determine when things are cleaned up? (I have asked some of the crusaders in the industry this same question and rarely get a reasonable response that doesnt include a lot of mumbling)

No. 2 is flat out wrong. Not sure what you classify as a "dump", but 90% is way off. The only track I wouldn't take my kids to is Hazel Park. I think tracks are way more kid friendly than ever. They have all kinds of stuff to get kids to attend and have a good time. Remember, there was a time when kids weren't allowed at the track. How did the younger generations get involved in racing then? Somehow they managed to. Kids get into racing because a parent, relative or friend is already into it, not because a track is nice or isn't a "dump".

:eek: !

....it was a good day for me anyway. :)

it was a fun two days of racing. i know a lot of us had issues with the substance covering the main track, but all in all it was an excellent two days of racing. i think a lot of us stuck at home enjoyed trying to make some picks and come on between and discuss what was going on. in that respect, it's a more enjoyable day then the ky derby for instance.
and yeah, no fun in ever picking the heavy fave, anyone can do that. no one is dissing a fave by trying to make some money elsewhere--and it's a pleasant feeling to pick some longer shots that come in for a board finish-at least it is for me. it would be pretty boring if horses always came up in the same order as their odds would dictate.

as for music note, a third was no disgrace, altho it's hard with their camera work to be able to really watch much that's going on. once zenyatta got going, they zoomed in just on her. and as for next year, i doubt music note is around-but that's darley for you. it's why i try not to get too wrapped up in one horse, but try to enjoy all of them. plenty of them to root for, and no real disappointment when they leave, as there are plenty more to take their place.

:rolleyes:

i meant as a race fan, silly. but you knew that!

I beg to differ. Alot fo the hardcore ARE watching at home because between phone and internet you can play the races as easily from your couch as at a simulcast, and the beer is cheaper. In the early days of the Cup, you went to the Cup or watched on TV or at an OTB. Then more and more simulcast became available and you watchedat your local track. Then as ADW became available people realized that it was cheaper and fun to watch at home, maybe have friends over or watch and follow via blogs and bb's.
That said, the networks have not done a service to the horseplayers tha are watching.
The blimp shot is great for replaying the race but dreadful for the live action. I hate all the jumping around. (I was sure I was going to win with Westphalia until I realized I had 1/16 to go!) The dopey interviews to the exclusion of real time odds etc is insanity. Breaking for commercials with 90 seconds to post is infuriating. The networks need to at least now and then acknowledge that unlike baseball and football, in racing the betting is LEGAL and that the entire game is in fact funded by it!

:D

....it was a good day! :$:

you fit right in around here then!

This is true, hope you had a good day :) as usual "you" guys do a great job at the "mother ship" ;)

i know it hoff, good for you!

but most importantly, they all went back to the barn safe and sound.

1) OK?? Think about what his legacy coul dhave been if he wasn't retired at 3??

2) That doesn't make it OK to me, does it to you?? Also the places you mentioned are nostalgic, and SAFE for the most part for families to visit(not the Vet). Take a trip to the following tracks, hit a for a few thousand and tell me just how safe you feel being there and when leaving- Pimlico, Hollywood, Golden Gate, Thisltedown, Aqueduct, Hawthorne, etc

3) Don't be stupid... cheating is industry wide and you know it.

Amen! :)

I am in my late 30's and I was always allowed to go to the track, and thus this was how I was introduced to the sport.

A dump, is a place that you would be ashamed and embarrassed to take your wife/GF/friends/family to, Or a place where you would be afraid to leave your wife alone while you place a awager.

And if the places are not dumps, you are likely to attract more family oriented people, thus broadening your base of possible fans.

By about 4pm I was hoping to get beamed up to another galaxy. What a day...to much of a good thing is ...a BAD thing...

:D

but, you DO get a few days off???

I don't care what ANYONE thinks here, you guys are the best!

Back to work on Monday. Meanwhile my boy (avatar pic) got the day off today and will be annoyed with me for showing up tomorrow before he's has his pasture time.

I did have a decent day at the windows as I boxed the exacta in the Juvie and Turf and had the Tri in the Mile. It's like getting bonus pay for the day.

Jessica is so hot

I took a 1/2 day from work on Friday so I could watch the races live. Last year, I completely forgot the races were on - it was no fun to see the results by reading a message board. I spent way too much time on the computer over the last couple of days, but it was a lot of fun. This might be heresy to say, but I'm not sure I would enjoy going to the Derby. I don't like big crowds and I don't care about fashions, hats or otherwise. I didn't have any problem with folks trying to pick against SB or any other fav - it doesn't affect what happens on the track and, if you are trying to make $$$, betting the fav doesn't help any.

I get very attached to my favorites (not just Indys either - I love anything by Gulch or his sons, particularly Nayef), so it's really hard for me to be somewhat disinterested in order to protect my feelings. I remember betting Tempera (still miss her, poor thing) to win the Juvy Fillies a few years back and getting a nice, juicy 11-1 on her. I didn't care about the $$, though - just winning the race was a joyous feeling. I guess I'd rather take my chances with being emotionally involved and deal with the pain when horses are retired before their time. Still, I truly will never forgive Sheikh Mo for retiring Bernardini. I know he was a controversial horse on various boards, but he was very talented and he could have been an outstanding older horse. I know I'm bitter - I'll survive, of course, but this kind of thing is a punch in the gut. As you say, however, there are always newcomers to join the fray - and since I have not become an ex-racing fan, apparently I have learned to roll with the punches somewhat.

1. But he wasnt and he is still remembered today. Everyone acts like horses were campaigned for 10 years in past years. We had a popular Derby winner a few years back named Funny Cide who raced till he was 6 and yet the game didnt suddenly turn around. The thing that you and most people forget is that NCAA basketball has always been a hugely popluar sport the last 25 years and the top players havent been staying for four years for a long time. However trainers, owners and jockeys stay around like coaches and managers but that is always forgotten.

2. How safe do you feel leaving Madison Square garden with a couple thousand in your pocket? What about yankee stadium? This is an inane argument. Keeneland, Santa anita, Churchill, Saratoga, Gulfstream, Arlington, Turfway, Mountaineer, Charlestown, laurel, Turf paradise, Belmont, Delaware, Colonial, Tampa, Ellis park, River downs, Indiana downs, hoosier, Lone star, La Downs, the red mile, the Meadowands, Monmouth, Penn national, Presque isle, Finger lakes are all in safe areas with some obviously nicer than others.

3. Your response is typical and doesnt answer the question. Let me ask one more time. HOW do you know WHO is cheating and WHAT they are doing? Give me one shred of evidence that you personally know is an example of "cheating" that goes on without punishment. And tell me how exactly will you know what measures are working or when the "cheating" has stopped or is being curbed.

My point is that if the industry would institute a minimum age for breeding to begin, then owners would be more inclined to run their horses for a longer period of time. Why not make the official minimum breeding age of 5 years? This will help the more recognizable horses stay in the limelight a little longer, and allow fans to be more appreciative of their skills and careers.

I have been to most of the tracks you listed.. some are great, some are ok, and some aren't so great.


Punishment should be worthy of an infraction, When you cheat the betting public and your fellow trainers/jockeys/owners, you should be JAILED, not fined/suspended. If racing officials and law enforcement would get in line on this "white collar" crime, then racing might remove the stigma of a cheaters paradise.

For a sample of the cheating that is accepted by this industry, take a look at the links here,

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/press_releases.htm
http://www.chrb.ca.gov/complaints.htm

Maybe I am a bad husband/father. I've never been embarrassed or afraid to leave my wife and kids alone to place a wager. How many assaults, kidnappings or robberies vs. women and children have you heard of at a race track? I haven't heard of any.

Colorful language? Sure. It broadens their horizens.

[quote=pba1817]1)
2) That doesn't make it OK to me, does it to you?? Also the places you mentioned are nostalgic, and SAFE for the most part for families to visit(not the Vet). Take a trip to the following tracks, hit a for a few thousand and tell me just how safe you feel being there and when leaving- Pimlico, Hollywood, Golden Gate, Thisltedown, Aqueduct, Hawthorne, etc
quote]

I think you are a little paranoid. I grew up at the Big T and it is as safe as anywhere. There's only one person to worry about and that's Morty. Saying you would not bring your wife/girlfriend and/or familiy, I think you're more ashamed of yourself than the place you're taking them.

Also, wake up to the internet. I spend more time with horse racing than most. I work out of the house, follow the tracks daily, and I'm a die hard fan.....all from the basement of my house in SC 400 miles from a track or OTB.

And they become good artists!:)

One of the things that you dont understand is that a great deal of money that is generated by the breeding and selling of horses is used by owners to subsidize racing stables which rarely generate enough money to sustain themselves. You as a bettor fail to understand that the owners who put on the show almost universally at a loss have to have the ability to get money back in order to maintain the racing side of the business. Everytime I read about how there should be rules regarding who can be bred or at what age I cringe. That a signifigant portion of the industry which is already getting hammered by the economic downturn and the rise in costs should put in rules that will make it even harder to stay afloat so that "fans" can "enjoy" the two or three horses that actually carry any name value a few times a year is ignorant. What happens to the three year old who sustains a major injury? Just put him in the freezer for a few years and thaw him out at 5? What about the bills like insurance for those horses? What about a nice mare who gets sick or hurt at a young age? Just pay bills for a few years on them while they stand in the field looking pretty? This idea is something that guys like Bill Finley came up with and those guys have zero idea of what goes on in reality and why things like this are not only never going to happen but are extremely harmful for not only a lot of people but horses too. You gonna sponsor a filly tht gets abandoned at 2 because she got hurt and no one wants to pay bills on her for three years?

So if they stop publishing violation on the internet then the cheating will have stopped? Jail time for infractions? This is just more of the same crap unrealistic people put out there. No doubt that ALL sports have issues and racing among them but a lot of this "cheating" is nothing more than minor violations of poorly written and enforced medication rules that have no effect on the horses actual performance. Like I said before if they stopped publishing these violations on the internet would cheating just disappear?

there is no way you can institute minimum breeding ages. you can't force owners to keep their horses on the track.
we've had this discussion before, how to persuade owners to keep their horses in training. it's a difficult proposition. one way you'll see it happen right now is that the economy is down, and the breeding market is down. there will be a lot less horses rushing to the shed this year than in years' past. it happened with the years of silver charm, real quiet, etc. if there is more money to be made on the track, they'll stay there.
also, chuck is right. the best horses back in the day didn't race on as often as some think, or run in as many races in total. man o war retired at 3 to avoid carrying weights horses hadn't seen before. he ran 21 times, and decades later, native dancer ran that same amount. count fleet retired at 3. yeah, he suffered an injury-but not one typically career-ending.
i do think it's a bit laughable at the announcements of stud deal for a few of these older horses, such as student council-he hasn't won since the pimlico special. i have a hard time thinking he'll be a good sire, but he does have a farm to back him up. tiago got a deal-ok. i don't see it for some of them, but some do. and the expenses can get huge for owners, and when they get an offer, they have to consider their bottom line. for many it's perennially in the red, so how can you really judge them harshly when they leap at the chance for some money to finance future racing endeavors?
you just have to hope that enough horses stay on to make things interesting, and wait for some others to come out from the woodwork.

I do wish that top horses would race more and run at 4 but does 2 campaigns of a top horse make a big difference when you are comparing horseracing to other sports where the stars play for 10 or more years. I just dont buy into the theory that the sport would somehow become mainstream if Curlin or Big brown were to run till they were 6. And while we can bag on Shiekh Mo for retiring horses and having bizzare campaigns with them there are a lot of owners that need to sell their horses at their peak because they arent billionaires. If they wind up in the breeding shed so be it.

[quote=Cannon Shell]One of the things that you dont understand is that a great deal of money that is generated by the breeding and selling of horses is used by owners to subsidize racing stables which rarely generate enough money to sustain themselves. You as a bettor fail to understand that the owners who put on the show almost universally at a loss have to have the ability to get money back in order to maintain the racing side of the business. Everytime I read about how there should be rules regarding who can be bred or at what age I cringe. That a signifigant portion of the industry which is already getting hammered by the economic downturn and the rise in costs should put in rules that will make it even harder to stay afloat so that "fans" can "enjoy" the two or three horses that actually carry any name value a few times a year is ignorant. What happens to the three year old who sustains a major injury? Just put him in the freezer for a few years and thaw him out at 5? What about the bills like insurance for those horses? What about a nice mare who gets sick or hurt at a young age? Just pay bills for a few years on them while they stand in the field looking pretty? This idea is something that guys like Bill Finley came up with and those guys have zero idea of what goes on in reality and why things like this are not only never going to happen but are extremely harmful for not only a lot of people but horses too. You gonna sponsor a filly tht gets abandoned at 2 because she got hurt and no one wants to pay bills on her for three years?

QUOTE]
Thank you, Chuck. I wish it was as easy to keep horses in training some of these people make it out to be. Not to mention how difficult it is to run a stable and how difficult it is keep money flowing. These jokers spouting this nonsense have never paid a training, vet, shipping or layup bill. While I love racing I really wouldn't give a rat's ass what "was good for the game" if I was in position to get a stallion deal that would set my family up for life.

it's a niche sport, everyone may as well get used to that idea. i don't buy the thought that it's 'dying', it's been on life support for years according to some. it's hanging in there just fine, but will never see the likes of it's biggest days again-it's a different world. no way it'll be mainstream like football and baseball.
we would enjoy seeing the top horses run more, and sometimes we all decry lack of top horses in some of the supposed top races. but we still watch, still bet, and oftentimes still get to see some good racing to the wire.
as for bagging on sheikh mo, i doubt he cares-and he's easy to bag on, because if anyone could afford to keep their horses in training longer, it's him. and yeah, a lot of folks might be able to afford to keep a horse going a bit longer, but they can also go buy a few more horses if they don't. if you can get your hobby in the black a couple years, who can blame them really?

The percentage of owners with top horses that actually need money is what? 3 percent? Jokers? Yeah ok, buddy.

The top owners arent the ones affected by moves like this. It is the other 97% that dont have the ability to keep taking losses and pay bills on a non earning filly for 2 years before she can be bred. They are the ones that make up the vast majority of the cards on a day to day basis. No one is asking for anyone to shed a tear for owners but making rules that will severly harm the great majority of owners with no concrete benefits is not the type of thinking that is going to advance the sport.

I wasn't responding to a ridiculous rule proposal that won't see the light of day.

I laughed....alot!

The best feature of the entire broadcast was the clock in the upper righthand corner telling you how much time until the horses went to the post. That way I could watch all of the football teams I bet lose before I turned back the the races to see all of the horses I bet lose too. Saved a lot of wasted time watching those sentimental stories about rich people and their horses.

[quote=TheSpyder]I do not consider any part of Ohio near Cleveland safe.... that place is a dump.

What planet do you live on?

If there was a minimum age for breeding(meaning horses would run through their 5yo season), do you not agree that there would be more opportunities for horses to earn their graded victories through a career? Thus enhancing their stud fees in their retirements?

You guys can sit on your pimple filled, fat asses all day long and knock ideas that people come up with, but you had best start thinking about what else you are going to throw your money away on soon because unless the thoroughbred industry makes some positive changes, they wont be around too much longer.

How about coming up with some ideas of your own to fix the problems the industry faces??