I don't like the stuff either, but he got hurt at Aqueduct.

I thought Iavarone was of Italian disent not German.. And although I agree the horse is obviously hurt cutting IEAH any slack is never a good protocol, Scav theory is a bit difficult to buy

What does that have to do with it? I agree with you, but it has nothing to do with an injury to the animal. It's lousy for the sport in general that the possible Curlin-Big Brown match up will not happen. I know Curlin was only a maybe, with the workout today, but now it's possible neither will be there, which is unfortunate.

While I don't want to say they are lying, you have to admit that it is natural to be skeptical. True, they haven't decided to run Curlin in the Classic. But back when Big Brown's camp was issuing their challenges, the Curlin camp was pretty much against the BC all the way. Now they've at least publicly changed their stance and are publicly seriously considering it. So is it a coincidence that on the day Curlin's fate could be decided, Big Brown's people back out before the work? Consider for a minute if BB's people had decided they weren't going if Curlin did go. How would it look if they waited til after Curlin's camp says he will go? Not good. A lot of conjecture here, I know. But I think it's at least plausible.

on the turf, correct?

Where you really hot in the panties to see Big Brown vs. Curlin... The last thing the sport needed to see was these two over hyped OK horses further hyped and some Student Council type rag upset them both on Pro Ride.. Geez you make it seem like it was a fascinating match race.. What did you think it was Easy goer Sunday Silience? It was bearly Pleasant Home vs. that Jerkins filly?lol

Yep.

I wish some of you from the beginning who never gave this horse the credit he deserves (because of your dislike for the connections) would start a Big Brown connections thread and spew your insults there. He had a lot of great accomplishments this year and somehow that seems to get lost. Kind of unfair for the horse.

Regardless of how terrible some thought his competition was, how slow, bad beyers, could never beat this one or that one, etc., etc., no other race horse had a better year in 2008. That is a fact.

I will take Zarkava and the points

It would have been good for the sport. You would think that they would have advertised the hell out of it and try to draw in as many of the "casual fans" that only watch the TC races. Overrated or not, they would have had a matchup to sell.

No it's not, it's an opinion.

I'd say Zarkava certainly had a better year than him, but if you're just talking about North American horses, Curlin and Zenyatta both have had comparable, if not better years, and there's more for them to do still.

Like you said, it's an opinion.

25th year in bondage

He was working on Turf in NY, no?

:zz:

Unfortunate is all I have to say, I was cynic of this horse and became a believer not too recently especially with his last race.

oops, I thought he had already shipped.

Saying what you said is an opinion. I will correct myself if you can reply that another horse had more Grade 1 wins this year?

Steve, I understand what you are saying, and I also understand there is a 'line' here, but come on, given the connections lack of a spine and the greasyness about them, one has to wonder.

These guys have constantly tried to one up and love the spotlight, who doesn't, but I would be surprised if more then 10% of the racing public likes Iavorane, and there might be ONE Dutrow fan out there.

casual fans please... I couldn't give Big Brown tees and merch away... Smarty stuff flew off the retailers shelves. Nobody cared about Big Turd or his ridiculous connections, as for Curlin he is a nice grade one horse who thankfully hung around for a 4 year old campaign, He is hardly a super horse he is hardly a super fast horse. Clearly Curlin is racing against swill and 4 mil of his bloated earning is from a race which he beat 12 horses from Uraguay South African and Turkey.. i have nothing against Curlin he is certainly a very good horse but can we save the real excitement for a real event not some manufactured BS race?

I think the Xtra heat filly winning her maiden with a 103 beyer is more exciting then watching Big Turd get crushed by some Mitchel 80 claimer on juice BC day..lol

I just heard he stumbled on someone hiding in the grassy knoll.

Most of mine are, I was just trying to get the natives restless :)

I've rooted for Big Brown every race he's been in, and I dont doubt the injury, considering I know how bad his feet are.

But ever since Curlins team announced they were going, after the JCGC, I didnt think Big Brown would show up. His connections are so egotistical that they wouldnt want their big boy to be beat on the big stage.

LOL @ insulting a horse (whats the point of that?), but The Connections deserve any bit of insult they get.

steve has to be PC because he feels the public needs to have access to IEAH thru his show. Steve is objective and subjectively omits his real thoughts to protect the show. Honestly he is in a tough spot

I know....I wasn't trying to mess with Steve, just the others

So let me get this straight. If you say that no one had a better year than Big Brown, it's a fact, but if I say that no one had a better year than Zarkava or Zenyatta or Curlin, it's an opinion? Since when are Grade 1 wins the only factor in determining the greatness of a campaign?

Even if he had, what would the surface have to do with anything? He didn't break down or sustain a muscle injury, he grabbed a quarter. Surface doesn't make any difference when it comes to grabbed quarters.

The only "turd" references that should be made are to your comments. Nobody cared about Big Brown? How about the incremental audience he brought to the tracks/television/press? How about UPS? Yeah nobody cared.

Why should Big Brown be scared of Curlin? I'm sorry but I think you are way off base on the conspiracy theory. If anything Curlin's connections should be considered the one's that are ducking more than Big Brown's. Really to be so indecisive about putting the best horse in America into the premiere race of the year and to leave it to one work weeks out from the race, speaks volumes of how confident they really are.

Are Grade 1s not a good common denominator?

synthetic = evil

First off, if the race was on REAL DIRT, Curlin would have always been pointed to it. I dont fault his connections for not wanting to race on a surface they have NO FAITH in. I wouldnt mind all the top DIRT horses to skip the BC to stick it to California for forcing the tracks there to turn to sh*t.

Why should Big Brown be scared of Curlin? Well, Big Brown, the horse, has nothing to be scared of cause he's a horse and doesnt form thoughts or have knowledge of anything!

Big Brown, the connections, could have had their horse exposed and lost what interest people had left in breeding to him for an insanely high stud fee. Those connections are also egotistical a$$holes, and having their horse exposed by Curlin is not in their best interests.

I would have loved to see them race, granted I would have loved to see that happen on a real DIRT course, and I dont know who would have won, they are both real good racehorses.

No, they're not.

I'm with you there, but fair is fair. Grabbed quarters have nothing to do with surface.

I think I'll miss Shake the Bank more than I'll miss Big Brown.

So if you didn't like him or the connections, you tuned in to see Curlin or someone else blow the doors off BB. We always talk around here about the good of the sport and getting more people interested in racing. Don't you think that a classic with BB and Curlin would have generated some more interest in the BC and horse racing in general? Granted that they might not be superhorses, but last time I checked there aren't too many of those out there.

Do you consider the fact that some of the races are restricted? A race restricted to 3yo's is likely not as strong as a race open to all competition. Should 2yo grade ones be given the same weight as the BC Classic?

The additional interest would've been marginal at best, IMO.

I'm sure you will whine when I disagree but do you really think Zenyatta has a more impressive resume this year than Big Brown? Curlin won some top handicap races and the Dubai race but can you possibly compare those California filly poly races and the Apple Blossom to the FL Derby, KY derby, Preakness and Haskell?

Very true and having bad feet doesnt really have anything to do with grabbed quarters either.

I think her resume is at least comparable. She's beaten everyone she's faced with disdainful ease. I find it hard to knock her. The point I was trying to make was it's silly to say "it's a fact" that no one's had a better year than Big Brown.

Nobody's mentioning the fact that Zarkava was also retired today.

"Whilst no one will regret more than my management team and I not to see Zarkava race again, as she is such a supreme athlete, we have decided to retire her to the Aga Khan broodmare band, as she will be an invaluable asset to this essential part of our activity," the Aga Khan said in the announcement. "The quality and youth of our broodmare band is of the utmost importance to ensure we remain breeders of racehorses capable of performing at the top level."