Originally Posted by pgardn

Many people of the Jewish persuasion would tell you its a culture, more than a religion. And Jews were not the only culture persecuted by Hitler in a systematic manner. Have you read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich? Its really good.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Look, I'm not going to go back and forth with you. It's a gigantic waste of both of our times. Yes I disagree with your Holocaust assessment. Hitler persecuted the Jews because they were Jewish. That's it in a nutshell. Now, I could type 3 more sentences and try and be cute, clever and try and come off as smart, but there is no need.

I aksed you a question. It was a pretty simple quesion. You danced around and tried to be clever. It's fine.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Thats not the point. The fact that they were persecuted because they were JEWISH would mean that religion was inolved.

You can't seperate it...no matter how much you try to play the scholarly devil's advocate.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

What differentiated them from the others, why they were selected, is because of religious affiliation. So to say "religion" had nothing to do with it is just dumb.

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Sorry to disagree, but you can separate it..and the Jews do....many factions,groups, both culturally and faith-wise.

Originally Posted by pgardn

He has not presented us with very good sources of information
with the links. But at least he puts something up.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Okay so you can be jewish...without being jewish?

Originally Posted by pgardn

Define religion.
Define culture.

And you are dead wrong.

They were not persecuted for WHAT THEY BELIEVED.
I thought this was the basis of religion.
I lived with a Jewish family for basically 5 years thru
middle school to high school when my mom was ill.

Reform types...

Do you even know the basic groups of Jews?
Go to Israel and make the statement you just made, and you
will get laughed out of the country. They have huge conflicts between
the ultra-orthodox religious Jews and the cultural reform Jews who dont
like this religion shoved down their throat. It even happens in this country.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Okay so you can be jewish...without being jewish?

Originally Posted by pgardn

Now who is acting dumb.
There are many people who call themselves Jews that
DO NOT believe what the Orthodox Jews believe. They are mostly of Eastern European decent. They dont
memorize the Tora. They may not even learn Hebrew, which imo
is much more of a cultural thing.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

What does this mean? It's a good thing that he makes ridiculous claims without providing any serious backup? "At least he puts something up"? Anybody can do what he does, but most have brains and aren't that irresponsible with their words.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

sids, orthodox...beyond that i have no experience.

LOL. You are so trying to talk around it but you can't. Of course there are different types of jews just like there are different types of muslims or christians.

At the end of the day if there were a holocaust where 6 million mormons were rounded up and killed, does it really make a difference if they were killed because they believe in joseph smith or merely because they still believe in polygamy? At the end of the day, they would have all been killed because they were mormon. Religion is what defined them in the eyes of the killers.

Same with the jews.

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Hey Dipstick: so you talked to Hitler and you know his thoughts, and those of his followers? CAN you do better than that?

Originally Posted by pgardn

It means I need to start reading his posts closer
(which I dont really) having never seen the holocaust post,
because there are people on this board who have a very
simplistic view of Jews and the Holocaust.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

And there are many people who wear a crucifix around the neck that dont believe in the virgin mary. Again, what is your point?

And you say im acting dumb? You ar going around in a circle trying to defend an indefensible point. Good luck

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You are the one who goes to the neo nazi meetings...you would be a better judge.

You tell me.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm a Holocaust expert? Interesting twist there. I love how a simple question turns into this stuff.

The Jews were persecuted for being Jewish. Hitler, IMO didn't care what they believed, he just saw them as different and a threat to his master race, because they were Jewish, so he did what he did. So, to make a statement that their religion, which is what made them different, had nothing to do with their killing is a foolish one. He wanted to do away with anyone he viewed as different, whether it be color, religion, etc.

Now, like I said, I'm not going to go back and forth. You are back to your old tricks of complaining about stuff, but then sticking yourself right in the middle of it. You were asked a simple question, that didn't require any attempt to be clever, but you couldn't give a straight answer. You're caught up in trying to come off as a clever Robin Hood. I won't waste anymore time than I already have.

Originally Posted by pgardn

There is no circle.
Dont pull that crap with me.

I am telling you Jews were not persecuted for WHAT THEY BELIEVED.
It had much more to do with who they were in Germany during this time.

So now you tell me, why were Jews persecuted?
I have an opinion, lets hear yours. Or you can opt out
and say I dont really know because I have not read or discussed
this before. Neither of us were alive at this time, so tell me what you
have learned through your research...

Originally Posted by pgardn

Whatever.
Diff. and a threat to the master race?
How could they possibly be considered a threat?
Imo there are much more revealing answers.

Sure you dont want to discuss this, because you dont know
anything about it except the cursory lines.
Forget it.
Same old same old.
You know it all.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Whatever. No one claimed to be experts in the Jewish persecution...except for you.

In this case, one doesnt need to be an expert on the subject to know the answer. Its rather easy...no matter how much you want to distort it.

Originally Posted by pgardn

Rather easy? ARE you fckn kidding me?

You dont even have an opinion.

In your haste to castrate another poster
you stepped overboard. I dont claim to be an expert.
But I have a clear opinion on why the Jews were persecuted.
It is a question that Jews themselves have argued endlessly
over. So give your opinion.

And it is not distorting it. It is a very important question for
the Jewish people themselves my friend. If you call looking deeply
into reasons distortion, then so be it.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

There is no point to
discussing this. it's not
something I am interested
in and I have no desire to discuss
the holocaust.

I never claimed to know
it all. But I do know that
Dimmy's statement, much like
his statement about the NY Post
and his thread where he presented
a press release as fact are dumb. But,
like you said, at least he puts something
up. No matter how dumb it may be.

Originally Posted by pgardn

You claimed to know a lot more about this
subject than you did.
Of course you are not interested in it.
You got in too deep again.

And its fine if you want to link two unrelated
discussions in your obsession with picking apart
another poster.

Politically, I happen to be much closer to yourself
and Dalkhani. But you guys have already done
a dance on him. Why should I?

Originally Posted by dalakhani

In your haste to present yourself as the defender of the needy you miss the point...rather badly.

You are trying to act like you are an authority on Jewish history in Eastern Europe and all of the socioeconomic reasons behind the holocaust because you read a book. Im impressed.

I posted my equation earlier. Read it. It doesnt need to be complicated. Its simple. Sure there are other reasons behind what went on and no one ever denied that.

But to say that Jewish people didnt get killed because they are jewish is just dumb. Thats like saying that black people were enslaved because of skin color. Sure...you can make a case for all of the other factors that went down but...last i checked, the slaves in America were black for the most part. What differentiated them was race, what differentiated the jews was religion.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I am not asking you to do a dance on Timmig. No one did. You injected yourself into this as is your right. I didnt see Dahoss mention ever once that he was an expert nor did I. Your claim is false.

I have fun with Timmig. I actually find his lack of a clue rather charming. It doesnt change the fact that what you and he are claiming is wrong.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I am not asking you to do a dance on Timmig. No one did. You injected yourself into this as is your right. I didnt see Dahoss mention ever once that he was an expert nor did I. Your claim is false.

I have fun with Timmig. I actually find his lack of a clue rather charming. It doesnt change the fact that what you and he are claiming is wrong.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Please show me where I
claimed to know a lot about the
Holocaust? I never have. I just
know a dumb comment when I see
one. Get a grip man. The Robin
Hood stuff is so old.

Originally Posted by pgardn

Oh for gosh sakes.
Were did I say the bolded?
Honestly I respected you a lot more
than this. You claim that I distort, and you type something like this.
You take a cursory view of a very difficult subject
and make it like it is trivial and easy.

I will try once again if you really care:
Because I actually do. Why do you think Hitler and Germany
persecuted the Jews? This is not the first time Jews have been
persecuted and it is a very important topic of discussion as to
why... Very. The diaspora and subsequent persecutions is a
very important phenomena that seems to repeat.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Please show me where I
claimed to know a lot about the
Holocaust? I never have. I just
know a dumb comment when I see
one. Get a grip man. The Robin
Hood stuff is so old.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Oh gosh sakes...I was intending to distort when thats all you have done here. Again, you act as if anyone wants to discuss the holocaust. I dont. I never said that i did nor did anyone else. You read mein kampf? Great...we are all happy for you. But that is not the point that was being made.

I will do the equation again. Judaism=religion. reason people killed= because they were jewish. To say that having judaism as your religion had nothing to do with your being killed during holocaust is just dumb.

Now if you keep arguing this silly point, i will be forced to email this entire thread to the texas board of education and you will be reprimanded for insanity.

Originally Posted by pgardn

Explain how...
I will show you what you are claiming
is such a skimming view of what happened
that one learns nothing.

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Your equation is false, pure and simple..it's what's been fed to you for so long. You believe a delusion,numbers-boy!

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Have you even seen the original post? Why dont you check it out and come back and debate. You have no idea what you are even debating about without reading the quote...although im sure you will find a reason regardless.

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

...still dancing,are ya? doofus.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

LOL...why can't your GED class be on sundays? Hitler was a satanic devil worshipper too...right?