Derby Trail Forums
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Derby Trail Forums (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/index.php)
-   The Paddock (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Two could be heavy favorites on Saturday - play against (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2439)

boldruler 07-28-2006 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
if you have a speed horse that usually only last 9 furlongs, YEAH
Is that what Point Given was. :eek:

Scav 07-28-2006 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boldruler
Is that what Point Given was. :eek:
He won that race from the lead

Scav 07-28-2006 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boldruler
Monmouth is the most underrated track in america. Saratoga is obviously King, but Monmouth is really nice. The Haskell is the big leagues.

Point Given, War Emblem, Lion Heart, Touch Gold, Holy Bull.
Roman Ruler is a perfect example. That horse never wanted ANY Part of 10 panels and he won easily there.

This race also doesn't get the best talent because of the Travers....if they raced it this weekend, they would get better talent

boldruler 07-28-2006 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
He won that race from the lead
But he wasn't just a 9F horse. He could run as far as needed. So could a couple other winners.

The Haskell is more prestigious than the Jim Dandy, but not the Travers. The best argument is that you want a race over the Saratoga track, but the extra week argument doesn't cut it for me.

Scav 07-28-2006 02:12 PM
How come Gulfstream runs a major stakes weekend every 4 weeks?

because trainers want 4 weeks inbetween starts

Scav 07-28-2006 02:15 PM
Monmouth, ESPECIALLY on Haskell day is the most bias track I have ever watched, bar none. The track on Haskell Day is worse then the day Monarchos won the Kentucky Derby (for those who don't remember, that track was the fastest I have ever seen a racetrack)

zippyneedsawin 07-28-2006 02:17 PM
Monmouth IS usually a speed biased track..

boldruler 07-28-2006 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
How come Gulfstream runs a major stakes weekend every 4 weeks?

because trainers want 4 weeks inbetween starts
So I guess Bluegrass Cat, Strong Contender, and whoever else shows up for the Haskell, and Bright One and the WV Derby horses, should just forget about the Travers.

With your reasoning the Travers will be the top 3 horses from the Jim Dandy.

Very exciting Travers. Bernardini, Ministers Bid, and Sunriver. So we get 5 wagering interests tomorrow in the Jim Dandy and 3 for the Travers.

Excellent.

boldruler 07-28-2006 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
Monmouth, ESPECIALLY on Haskell day is the most bias track I have ever watched, bar none. The track on Haskell Day is worse then the day Monarchos won the Kentucky Derby (for those who don't remember, that track was the fastest I have ever seen a racetrack)
Never been to Keeneland I guess. Monmouth is biased, that is probably why Sinister Minister is going, but people say the same thing about Pimlico and Bernardini didn't seem to mind.

Scav 07-28-2006 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boldruler
So I guess Bluegrass Cat, Strong Contender, and whoever else shows up for the Haskell, and Bright One and the WV Derby horses, should just forget about the Travers.

With your reasoning the Travers will be the top 3 horses from the Jim Dandy.

Very exciting Travers. Bernardini, Ministers Bid, and Sunriver. So we get 5 wagering interests tomorrow in the Jim Dandy and 3 for the Travers.

Excellent.
No, I am not saying that....BUT what I am saying is that IF YOU WANT TO WIN the Travers which is what Albertini has said he wants to do and is TARGETED FOR, historically, you do not run in the Haskell. Regardless how Bern runs in the Dandy, he is my stone cold lock of the year to win the Travers.

SentToStud 07-28-2006 02:27 PM
Scav,
Probably around mid-afternoon on. Like a firster tomorrow. Calder Race 2 Espartaco.

boldruler 07-28-2006 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
No, I am not saying that....BUT what I am saying is that IF YOU WANT TO WIN the Travers which is what Albertini has said he wants to do and is TARGETED FOR, historically, you do not run in the Haskell. Regardless how Bern runs in the Dandy, he is my stone cold lock of the year to win the Travers.
Bright One will make him earn it.

Scav 07-28-2006 02:34 PM
Mid afternoon better be like 12:01pm in S2S time

Scav 07-28-2006 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boldruler
Bright One will make him earn it.
that is ridiculous. Bernandini will beat Bright One(if no White Mercedes) by between 6-9 lengths, maybe even more

Betsy 07-28-2006 02:37 PM
As for the Jim Dandy, it looks like it will be run on a very sloppy track, since reports are that it's pouring at Saratoga........sigh. That changes the whole complexion of the race since we have no idea how Bernardini will handle a sloppy track. Ugh - this is so frustrating. I've waited weeks for this (not to mention, Bernardini's connections have, for reasons other than just wanting to win another race) and we can't even get a fast track. Now I'm going to cross my fingers.

Scav 07-28-2006 02:43 PM
It is suppose to rain tonight, that doesn't mean sloppy track for tomorrow, by any means

boldruler 07-28-2006 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsy
As for the Jim Dandy, it looks like it will be run on a very sloppy track, since reports are that it's pouring at Saratoga........sigh. That changes the whole complexion of the race since we have no idea how Bernardini will handle a sloppy track. Ugh - this is so frustrating. I've waited weeks for this (not to mention, Bernardini's connections have, for reasons other than just wanting to win another race) and we can't even get a fast track. Now I'm going to cross my fingers.

Track will be lightning fast. 90-95 degrees and sunny tomorrow.

slotdirt 07-28-2006 03:06 PM
I remember the night before the Alabama last year it poured like you wouldn't believe. It was 80's the next day in Toga, and the track was barely upgraded to wet/fast before like the 8th race that day.

Back to the Haskell....what are you trying to say, Scavs, that Monmouth is a speed favoring track? I don't think Roman Ruler was a speed horse, by no means was he a speed horse.

Scav 07-28-2006 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt
I remember the night before the Alabama last year it poured like you wouldn't believe. It was 80's the next day in Toga, and the track was barely upgraded to wet/fast before like the 8th race that day.

Back to the Haskell....what are you trying to say, Scavs, that Monmouth is a speed favoring track? I don't think Roman Ruler was a speed horse, by no means was he a speed horse.
he was a speed horse, his big wins were on or near the lead....Bernandini would not win the Haskell if he went there. I can't wait to bet against Sinister Minister there either, regardless of the speed bias, that horse is still cooked from Keeneland

ateamstupid 07-28-2006 07:36 PM
Those two horses are so much the best, it's ridiculous, but I respect you taking a stand..

outsmart smarty 07-28-2006 07:38 PM
I think zito knows best in short fields if hemingway's key can stay close to pace on the outside tomorrow he can kill on the strecth

boldruler 07-28-2006 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Dude, I don't know if you've ever been to Saratoga, but it's usually like this during this time of year. Hot and muggy, and from my understanding Monmouth can get very hot too. I also wouldn't count too much on a meteorologists long range forecast. Albertrani said today on ATRAB that the horse has never been better, and you are underestimating having a race over the track. The Jim Dandy is a much more logical race for Bernardini. This is not to say that Bernardini couldn't win both, but he's been pointing for THIS race since he was declared out of the Belmont.
I have been many times and the weather usually sucks, but it isn't often in the 90's and humid. This is much hotter than usual. When it is hot even in the morning, you know it is hot.

Pointg5 07-28-2006 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid
Those two horses are so much the best, it's ridiculous, but I respect you taking a stand..
Bernardini is, but LOV is very overrated, I like Motion's horse to beat her...

zippyneedsawin 07-28-2006 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointg5
Bernardini is, but LOV is very overrated, I like Motion's horse to beat her...

I don't know if I'd call her overrated.. but it is asking a lot to step up to a Grade 1 against older horses.

sumitas 07-28-2006 10:51 PM
Wend is always tough.

Scav 07-28-2006 11:27 PM
Sum, have you watched her last three races?

Clearly, CLEARLY not the same horse...something went amiss and she needs to be retired, should have retired before her last race

sumitas 07-28-2006 11:29 PM
no i have not. she'll probably get scratched because the turf should be soft. brisnet has Sweet Talker with about an 11 point primepower advantage over the nearest rival My Typhoon. if that is any indication she needs a good look. sheets wise i dunno...will she bouince ?http://www.brisnet.com/Promo/Free_PPs/brd_comp.pdf

Cassette Case deserves a good look in the 4th race.

Pointg5 07-29-2006 08:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Overrated??? How do you figure? She has been awesome in the US so far, and has been flattered twice now, by Magnificent Song today, and May Night a few weeks ago in the Virginia Oaks. If the odds aren't there I can see not betting her, but I think that Biancone knows A LOT more than we do, and he isn't running her there for kicks. She's the goods.
You guys will be eating those words tonight, she loses and like I said, I like My Typhoon or Motion's horse...

GPK 07-29-2006 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boldruler
Thanks for telling me what they are doing with Showing Up. I will be sure to tell that to Tagg at Arlington. ;) I guess Bill Finley was just making up his article in the NYT too. Not only will Showing Up go to the BC Turf, but he might be one of the favorites after his Turf Classic win.

Showing Up is the real deal. Nobody has seen anything from him yet. There is a lot more in the tank with that horse. I still don't think he has Barbaro talent on the grass, but some close to him do.

Here are some parts of the article on Showing Up in the NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/18/sp...=1&oref=slogin

Change to the Turf Offers Horse a Chance to Show Off

By BILL FINLEY
Published: July 18, 2006


“Everybody who gets on him says he’s as good a horse as they’ve ever sat on,” said Showing Up’s trainer, Barclay Tagg, also the trainer of Funny Cide, the 2003 Kentucky Derby and Preakness winner. “The jockey thinks he’s a super horse. I’m a guarded person and I don’t like to get too excited, but he’s done everything we’ve asked of him.”

Tagg said that Barbaro deserved to be the 3-year-old champion, an award usually given to a dirt horse, but he added that Showing Up could be named the male turf champion.

With that goal in mind, he has mapped out a schedule that consists of the Secretariat Stakes on Aug. 12 at Arlington Park, the Joe Hirsch Turf Classic on Oct. 7 at Belmont and the Breeders’ Cup Turf on Nov. 4 at Churchill Downs.


BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH HAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

"Not only will Showing Up go to the BC Turf, but he might be one of the favorites after his Turf Classic win."


Hang on....let me wipe the tears from my eyes. The horse beat nothing in the Turf Cup (his only start on turf) and now all of a sudden he might be one of the favorites in the BC Turf??? against Europes best? against Americas best older turf horses???
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Pointg5 07-29-2006 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPK
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH HAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

"Not only will Showing Up go to the BC Turf, but he might be one of the favorites after his Turf Classic win."


Hang on....let me wipe the tears from my eyes. The horse beat nothing in the Turf Cup (his only start on turf) and now all of a sudden he might be one of the favorites in the BC Turf??? against Europes best? against Americas best older turf horses???
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Showing UP couldn't hold English Channel's bridle..

I wasn't a big fan of EC, until his last race, that made me a believer...

GPK 07-29-2006 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointg5
Showing UP couldn't hold English Channel's bridle..

I wasn't a big fan of EC, until his last race, that made me a believer...
and this guy is willing to make a heads up bet between EC and SU!!!!

boldruler 07-29-2006 09:23 AM
Showing Up is no Barbaro, but they say he is very close. Showing Up will mop up English Channel. The Europeans are his only competition. Showing Up is not the horse you saw a few weeks ago when he won the Colonial easily. He is becoming a monster. When Mr. Pessimist Tagg starts talking like he is about an Eclipse Award, you better watch out.

Tell EC to take off his skirt and beat a good European horse than I will give him credit. That fifth place finish last year didn't do much for me. His dogfight with that gimp Shakespeare who was coming off surgery showed EC doesn't have it.

I bet English Channel could have beaten Barbaro on the turf too. LOL.

GPK 07-29-2006 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boldruler
Showing Up is no Barbaro, but they say he is very close. Showing Up will mop up English Channel. The Europeans are his only competiton. Showing Up is not the horse you saw a few weeks ago when he won the Colonial easily. He is becoming a monster. When Mr. Pessimist Tagg starts talking like he is about an Eclipse Award, you better watch out.

Tell EC to take off his skirt and beat a good European horse than I will give him credit. That fifth place finish last year didn't do much for me.

I bet English Channel could have beaten Barbaro on the turf too. LOL.
I doubt the EC could have beaten Barbaro on the turf. I was the one BEGGING for the Jacksons to leave Barbaro on the grass, instead of trying for the Triple Crown with him. America needs a 3YO turf superstar and I truly believe that Barbaro was him.
I'm not saying that SU is a bad horse, but he has to beat more than what he did in the Turf Cup to prove anything to me. EC has essentially beat the best that AMERICA has to offer and his record speaks for itself. SU has beat one very suspect group of horses in 1 turf race. IF SU turns out to be a turf monster, I will be happy. I LOVE turf racing tons more than dirt, so I am always looking for more attention to be given to turfers.

SU has lots more to do on turf for anyone to believe he is a monster. If Tagg is so confident that he is that good, skip the 3YO turf races and pit him against the big boys.

GPK 07-29-2006 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boldruler
Showing Up is no Barbaro, but they say he is very close. Showing Up will mop up English Channel. The Europeans are his only competition. Showing Up is not the horse you saw a few weeks ago when he won the Colonial easily. He is becoming a monster. When Mr. Pessimist Tagg starts talking like he is about an Eclipse Award, you better watch out.

Tell EC to take off his skirt and beat a good European horse than I will give him credit. That fifth place finish last year didn't do much for me. His dogfight with that gimp Shakespeare who was coming off surgery showed EC doesn't have it.

I bet English Channel could have beaten Barbaro on the turf too. LOL.

BTW...the only thing you are proving with this post is your immaturity.

dr. fager 07-29-2006 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boldruler
His dogfight with that gimp Shakespeare who was coming off surgery showed EC doesn't have it.

It amazes me how people are so quick to back a 3 year old against older, mind you the best the world has to offer, the first time.

Pletcher also doesn't talk about Eclipse awards, he wins them, and he's very high on EC, said he's the 2nd best yearling him and his father ever purchased.

If this happens, the more experienced horse will get my money, but I say there is less than a 5% chance we even see this matchup this year.

GPK 07-29-2006 09:44 AM
Tag has to be more itelligent than to face him against elders before the BC Turf.

Like you said Bill, I guess people don't realize the HUGE difference between the 3YO year and after. As good as EC was last year, he is 10 times better than that as a 4YO this year.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:27 PM.
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.