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On capital OTB this morning they had a clip from Hialeah. It was the race Buckpasser won the Flamingo. He raced neck to neck with two other horses around the entire turn and all of a sudden another horse passed them like they were standing still and was ahead by open lengths. Buckpasser unbelievably reved up and overtook him at the wire.
Never seen anything like that..unreal And here is the race in part from youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0Sy-...eature=related |
Speaking of Sniper... do you have any fillies and mares on your list?? I dont know who Hindoo, Kingston, and Salvator are but I know in the 1900's and 2000's you did not include any filly or mare..
I think that is WAY off... |
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I think it is ridiculous to ignore their sex. She would have to be on that list. also Ruffian, Lady's Secret and a few others... like maybe Regret? The way you describe... Billy Jean King couldnt be an "elite" tennis player because she couldnt have beat Arthur Ashe or Pete Sampras?? |
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Ruffian ran track records the first two times she hit the track, never trailed at any point of any race, and averaged winning by 9 lengths. I don't care who she did it against, that is greatness. It's just my opinion, but I think she could have outrun all but a handful of horses that ever lived- male or female- at 5 to 8 furlongs.
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I think Personal Ensign was pretty good
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I think Zippy Chippy should be considered. 100-0-8-12 is freaking impressive. It is hard to win, but I think it is more hard not to win a race with 100 lifetime starts.
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Azeri was champion mare 3 years running, while carrying weight, winning in 4 states and 8 tracks and two trainers (one of which was not very good). |
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I like Cannon Shell's list except for maybe Cigar. |
Manila is a no brainer.
I would also consider Majestic Prince. Nine wins and a second in ten starts, with that lone loss being as a result of an injury after which he never ran again. He won some big races and was absolutely brilliant. Twenty years ago, he always came up on these all time great lists but he's become a forgotten great. |
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Bold Ruler still needs to be on there on this forum too!
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Seabiscuit? Sunday Silence?
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Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Nate Archibald Paul Arizin Charles Barkley Rick Barry Elgin Baylor Dave Bing Larry Bird Wilt Chamberlain Bob Cousy Dave Cowens Billy Cunningham Dave DeBusschere Clyde Drexler Julius Erving Patrick Ewing Walt Frazier George Gervin Hal Greer John Havlicek Elvin Hayes Magic Johnson Sam Jones Michael Jordan Jerry Lucas Karl Malone Moses Malone Pete Maravich Kevin McHale George Mikan Earl Monroe Hakeem Olajuwon Shaquille O'Neal Robert Parish Bob Pettit Scottie Pippen Willis Reed Oscar Robertson David Robinson Bill Russell Dolph Schayes Bill Sharman John Stockton Isiah Thomas Nate Thurmond Wes Unseld Bill Walton Jerry West Lenny Wilkens James Worthy |
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Caspar Milquetoast. He was great to me. first winning bet I made.... Agadirt back around '73
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old rosebud. when man o war was making his mark, he was compared to old rosebud. exterminator, colin, personal ensign |
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also, ruffian was never headed til she lost, and that was her first time vs males-well, a male. but she blew out the clock as well as her competition. i think that we all start adding too many horses to the 'great' list. there really are a few who have transcended time-man o war, secretariat, dr fager. so when you start mentioning skip away-does he belong with those three? maybe not, but he was a great horse. |
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i think a lot of what made affirmed so great is that he had alydar as a measuring stick. i would have no problem with alydar being spoken of as one of the best the sport has seen, as i think he was. it's funny that he sired another horse that faced the same situation years later. easy goer was one hell of a horse, but sunday silence beat him 3 out of 4, altho of course one was just a head bob. the picture of those two at the wire of the preakness is my favorite photo ever of a horse race. it's what we all want to see, and almost never do! |
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By Sniper's original definition, it's not enough to be a great filly to make his list. --Dunbar |
A horse that rarely gets mentioned when talking about all time greats has these credentials:
Lifetime record 46 starts 20 - 10 - 4 2 Time Grade I winner at 1 1/4 miles Multiple Grade I wins at 1 mile to 1 1/8 miles A Stakes winner on Grass and A Breeders' Cup Sprint Winner There aren't too many that are this versatile. The horse's name was Precisionist. |
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That said, I understand Sniper's wish to try to draw a line under the elite of the elite. Cigar, Alysheba and Sunday Silence were all personal favs, but I couldn't put any of them above the horses in Sniper's list. --Dunbar |
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I'd also put Grey Lag on the list. He won 25 races out of less than 50 starts and won 8 straght stakes race starts. He retired at 5 but came back as a 9 yo to win both his starts that year. |
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Go back and check the weight Exterminator gave away. How much, how often and to what horses. If all you are looking for are animals who had good records over a couple years, how can you leave off Black Ruby? |
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