Does anyone know anything about the players the Pirates got? The usual crap or a couple of descent prospects?

Hansen was the sox number 1 pick in 2005. Yeah, I would say he is a decent prospect.

The other guy might start right away.

Boston gave up a lot.

Atleast the Dodgers get to try him out before paying him anything.

The numbers simply dont bear this out. Manny is still a feared hitter when his head is in the game. If you have been watching lately you will have seen its not. The drop off in production to Bay is not that great.

That's the only good part. I was really happy to hear the the Red Sox were going to dump Manny(because I cant stand watching him when the Angels play the Red Sox), now I have to see his big old downs syndrom head with the Dodgers. What make the Dodger think that Manny is going to help when he is going to be seeing pitchers he has not faced before in the N.L.

We are in the dog days of august starting tomorrow and we just got through july. Of course Manny's loafing...he's been loafing for the last 8 years. Thats Manny. But are you trying to tell me that when it gets to september and beyond that manny's head wont be there? Come on Chuck.

Do numbers really tell the whole tale? Do regular season numbers make a hill of bean of difference in October and beyond? Manny is one of those players with that intangible "it" even at 36. He is in the same class of hitter as Vlad. He strikes fear in the hearts of opposing pitchers and managers. other teams have to play around him. No one has to play around Jason Bay no matter what his numbers are.

Not only do they trade him but they also agree to pick up salary and give away a couple of decent prospects?

My respect for Theo Epstein has seriously subsided.

And its a great day to be a Yankee fan.

Manny has destroyed National league pitchers during interleague play

La Roche is a top prospect who is ready now (14th best prospect in baseball coming into the year and most of the guys ahead of him are already major league regulars)
Morris was a number 1 pick in the 2006 draft, had Tommy John surgery and missed last year. Had a good comeback year at class A and is a good prospect but is a few years away.
Moss is a ready for majors player who may develop into a .280 20 HR 95 Rbi guy. He turns 25 in a month.
Hansen is a number 1 pick as a RP who hasnt panned out yet but has great stuff.

They got 3 guys who should be playing in the majors soon and one potentially good pitcher down the road. For one guy who was probably only going to be there one more year anyway they got 2 starters at 3b and LF and a potential future closer. Not bad

Not really. Boston has better and younger prospects than either of these 2 guys. Moss wasnt going to be more than a 4th OF for them and Hansen is replaceable.

i hear you. I am just saying that they gave up:

two prospects

7 million dollars

and one of the most feared hitters in baseball

for


Jason Bay

You are living in the past. There is no bigger Vlad fan than me but he is slipping too. Manny cant just turn it on anymore like he used to. Not to mention that his conduct has been way out of bounds this year and it really isnt funny when he is assaulting people or striking out on purpose or hitting the ball and just walking to the dugout. Manny was a great hitter but he aint anymore and with all the other things going on they obviously felt they needed to get him out of there. The prospects they gave up arent in their plans anyway and they make so much money they could pick up the entire Dodgres roster and it wouldnt hurt too much.

Bay is better than the Yankees LF of the day btw.

He has 20 HR's not 40. He isnt driving in 140 runs a year anymore and his conduct has been deplorable even for him. as a yankee fan I'm sure you rarely watch the pirates but until bay had an off year in 07 he was regarded as good as guys like Matt Holiday. He was rookie of the year in 04 and an All star in 05 and 06. it isnt like they got Dave Roberts for him

Thanks Chuck I appreciate the input. The local media ( because of advertising $$$) doesn't always paint a clear picture.

The Pirates seemingly did pretty good though I dont underestimate thier ability to srew them up

Take it from a Sox fan......this was a divorce that was waiting to happen.
I certainly appreciate everything that Manny has done for the organization.
Let's face it, without him we don't win in '04 or '07. The problem is, Manny was never the type of guy who you could completely embrace. He's always been a headcase and as long as he was putting the numbers up, the Sox fans were always willing to look the other way. He's a desperate man right now. He's getting older and he's not going to get the contract he's banking on for next year. I'll always remember the big hits and the "Manny being Manny" moments, but in the end, he's just another very talented athlete who thinks he's bigger than the game.

well said

Truth be known, he is the only one on the Dodgers that can hit good pitching. That's it. One guy(better than none.) Without him, there really is no need to make the playoffs, cuz this bunch wasn't gunna hit in the post much(at all.) I guess you can say Blake, also, but you can't rely on him doing it. This is the best hitter we have ever had here. That's just a fact.

But his numbers arent really off from his career averages. He is on pace to put up BETTER numbers than last year. He will hit 30 something homers and hit low 100's RBI and bat 300. Thats what he does.

More importantly, for his career, he always hits better the second half of the season. More importantly than that...he kills the yanks.

From many accounts, most of his teammates have said that they enjoy playing with him...except Youkilis.

I couldn't agree more ......The part of this that I am most curious about is how the rastaman will do without Ortiz in front of him and the guys that hit behind him all these years.

The crazy stint with the assault of the 60 year traveling secretary prior to the all star game was the beginning of the end for the front office and when it became clear Manny was going to treat the team and fans to 5.4 second 90 foot "sprints" and refusals to play when the club went to war, the Sox would have given him away for less. I have no idea how good this Pirate is but the outlaw just left town IMO. Say hello to the rest of former Sox Manny, the national league is entirely different and does not play to your skill set. A bigger left field in LA, no wall to allow you to cheat shallow, and a different offensive philosophy will expose you for the limited player and declining hitter you have become. The Sox are playing better already and don't play until Friday..

You're on dope or cough syrup. WTF you think we got Blake for? This guy couldn't hit. That's why. Go get gone. ROACH VAMOOSE. Let him hit .220 over there. Let him hit .300 there. I don't care, cuz he was never gunna hit for L.A.

no offense, but this attitude is pretty much par for the course for how Sox fans have treated stars in the past.

Its pretty much "thanks for the help but dont let the door hit ya".

It will be interesting how they treat Papi as his time is fast approaching.

Oh come on. Matsui is about to be back.

LOL...They got Vin Scully giving out Manny's stat's while a video of Manny is playing. He is happy as can be in the video(waving to the camera.) Pretty funny.

Yeah he has really had a fair chance. He will be an all star within 3 years. You would have hated mike Schmidt as a rookie too...

By the way your GM is the worst in the league, hands down....so I'm gonna guess this deal will work out like his others...BAD!

Bay is better than Matsui, especially the unhealthy, diminishing skills version.

No offense taken but lets take it easy on the generalizations about Manny being "like all the others".

Let's see I have been a fan of Boston sports teams since about 1963-64. My first hero was probably Yaz. 326-121-44 if you speak the lingo. The man left a saint when he retired and I still think he was the best fielding left fielder to EVER play Fenway. I never saw Teddy Ballgame.

Fred Lynn, Jim Rice, Tony C all left without pissing off the masses by loafing, quitting and beating on old men. Even Clemens left town without forcing the issue by refusing to take the field.

Dewey Evans and the 25 cabs for 25 players dance was a true event but to describe the last 4 decades as typical of Mannytime is just untrue.

The Pats and Celts are another story for another day......

Manny was great while he actually played, clutch, productive and beyond consistent but the BS that went on this year at the end warrants the current condemnation of his exit which will fade with time. Bill Buckner was embraced this year.....on second thought maybe we were all doomed because of this last one...

Look who is writing me about making decisions. Your gem keeps shining:

" On the hands, and so Andruw Jones strikes out on three pitches to go 0 for 3 tonite" - V Scully (tonite, but it could be most any night.)

We have 1 run tonite. Who do you think would of possibly helped us score more runs? Roach,or Manny? We have won how many playoff games in 20 years, and you want us to keep waiting for guys to learn to hit? Diamondback youngins can hit. Drew doesn't need to keep learnin' to hit. Too many excuses. Roach had plenty opportunities. He killed many a rally for us. G' BYE ANDY YA NO HIT'N ROACH. We have more than paid our dues waiting for kids to come around. BTW , the Diamondback position playing kids are better than ours. So, it really is paying off huh? We don't have luck with young hitters. We have luck with young pitchers. That's the way it just always is. They refuse to hit for power here. Is this not obvious? I KNOW HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO GET PEOPLE THAT REALLY CAN HIT. We have had pitifully few do it. We don't have any quality hitters. That's been a 20 year problem(atleast.) You think waiting for more miracle youngins is gunna work? It hasn't ever worked here. We've never had any of these Hall of Fame hitters. This is yet another nite of getting 1 fkn run etc. Why don't you go through that before you tell us we're impatient? We have been patient. We have waited , and waited, and waited. Our fkn kids just lost to go 2 games back. These kids can't hit good pitching. They scored 1 run. No, I am not in favor of waiting for guys like roach to start hitting. FCK THAT.WE HAVE DONE THIS. DOESN'T WORK. THEY DON'T HIT. You just don't understand that prospects don't hit for this organization. They don't. They hit Washington, and the Giants. So what. Yeah, just hang on to the roach, and stand pat. Then lose the division by 7 games, and of course next year the kids will do miracles. Our kids can hit Frisco, cincy, Washington Houston. They can't hit against good teams. Simple as that. Can't you see this? The prospects aren't getting past this level. Not for us. They can't hit Webb, Zambrano. SABATHIA, HERRON. We've waited, They aren't gunna do it. Again tonite. They can't do it.

Do you not realize that when you play in a division with clear cut pitchers parks like SD and SF and you play 1/2 your games in LA which is a pitchers park ipitchers have a big advantage? You know why AZ's players develop faster? Because they play in a hitters park and they actually play them as opposed to the yo-yo system the Dodgers seem to prefer. There is a ton of talent in LA but they seem to specialize in holding those players down in order to get over the hill, in decline guys. That is not the players fault.

At least they only have 1 year of him left. There is no reason why the GM isnt gone because he seems to want to save his job more than build a team.

LOL, GUNNA BE A long year. This guy can't hit anymore . It is what it looks like. He gets a fkn single every 8 or 9 at bats. More embarassing than a turd in a classroom. We could of held on to these 2 kids if this fkr would hit. We are playing our kids. Martin, Kemp, Looney, and Ethier all played tonite. 1 run...THEIR KIDS GOT 2 RUNS. They are better hitters. Our kids can't hit anybody good. That is obvious to most people who watch them day in /day out. We've played them. Who do you think we played most the year at 3rd? Dewitt n' Roach. We played them, and they can only hit bad pitching. These prospects aren't what you make them out to be. I watch them almost every game. They can't hit good pitching at all. We can deny the obvious, but it doesn't change the fact that they aren't good enough.Evidently, from what you are suggesting, we would lose every damn game in which we face a good pitcher. If you look, you will see that's why we are only a .500 club. We don't win the pitcher duel games. We won one the last time we faced Webb, but it was a meltdown by the closer that allowed that. We didn't hit the starter. Honestly, I don't think we have the team to beat the Diamondbacks. The Dodgers have an outside chance to get the Wildcard(5 1/2 back.) Unfortunately, I think this Diamondback team is going to respond each time the Dodgers get close.They're a much better hitting team. All these decent stats, batting averages etc. by Dodger batters are mainly due to hitting in certain games where the pitching can be had. They are very predictable. Bettors must adore betting the Dodgers. To beat the Diamondbacks for the division, THEY WOULD NEED A MASSIVE CONTRIBUTION FROM MANNY in the games like the one just played against the Dbacks. That game says it all. Look at that game, and I don't know how the f you could wonder why the Dodgers wanted Manny. It's obvious.

Thats simply untrue. These were each's stats in last full year:

Bay
538 78 133 25 2 21 84 59 9 141 4 1 .247 .327 .418 .745

Matsui
547 100 156 28 4 25 103 73 73 4 2 .285 .367 .488 .855




Its not really close. Matsui hit for more power, struck out at half the rate and batted 40 pts higher. As a matter of fact, he was better in every category.

This year, matsui has been injured, but he still batting 323.

Matsui has had one full season out of the last 3. He is a liability in the field and should be really bad with one surgically repaired knee and another that needs surgery.
Naturally you chose to use Bays worst season by far as his first three seasons were very good and he is playing well this year. And with the news that Matsui's doctor has urged him to have seaon ending surgery which he refuses to do I would assume that Nady/Damon will be your left fielder and Matsui the DH until he is placed back on the DL.

If we are looking at this season, which you seem to only want to look at, nady/damon are just as good if not better. They both hit for higher average with higher obp and are every bit as average in the field. In case you havent heard, Bay doesnt have an arm either.

He has a cannon compared to Damon who basically underhands it back in. I will remember all the adoration for Nady when he turns back into a pumkin. Bay is a better player than either of these guys too.

From Baseball prospectus

"Sent LF-R Manny Ramirez to the Dodgers; sent OF-L Brandon Moss and RHP Craig Hansen to the Pirates; acquired OF-R Jason Bay from the Pirates. [7/31]


However much this wound up being a hail mary or an anticlimax, for the Red Sox, it's a straightforward good move. As improbable as it may or may not be that Bay outproduces Ramirez for the balance of the year—as he has already this season, with an EqA of .319 to Manny's .306—and as much chemistry gets either washed out or restocked or put in the right beakers or whatever metaphor you can torture on behalf of clubhouse amity, this can be seen as a straightforward case of addition by addition. Bay's six and a half years younger and as productive right now, as PECOTA's MORP projections for both men reflect, and in the immediate future there's every reason to expect Bay to be worth what you'd wind up paying and fulfill what you need from a mid-lineup bopper in left; Manny, not so much. As great as Manny's past was, does anyone think he's going to slug .600 again? Because if he doesn't do that, you've got a player doing a lot of the same things Bay does, only with considerably more drama and expense, and with considerably worse defense, however much Red Sox Nation might have been inclined to trot out the standard "but he plays the Wall well" defense that has been a prop for bad-fielding Red Sox left fielders for decades.

That last element matters that much more with David Ortiz back from the DL, because whatever the personality issues in play, the Sox can no longer hide Manny's being Manny in left once their starting DH was back in the lineup. Add in the open question of how enthusiastically Manny would be Manny with a glove on one hand, and you can understand how Theo Epstein and company decided it would be best to just get the entire mess out of their hair with a certain celerity. If not with an assist from the Marlins to swap out Jason Bay, then enlist the Dodgers, but for any god's sake, just get it done already.

The financial benefits of the exchange cannot be understated. Bay's already locked in at $7.5 million for 2009, and will even then be a year short of eligibility as a free agent, meaning that the Sox have him under control in his age-30 and age-31 seasons, at which point they can probably afford to let him go wherever he wishes. Although they're paying Manny to be a Dodger for the remainder of 2008, that's a commitment already made, so in terms of expense, they're only taking on the balance of Bay's salary this season, and against that they're no longer in the position of having to decide whether or not to pick up Ramirez's $20 million options in each of the next two seasons. In terms of what they save, even if the Sox are out roughly $2 million still owed to Bay this year, add that to Bay's salary and they're realizing a savings of at least $10 million for 2009, and perhaps that much again if Bay only costs them roughly that much because of arbitration in 2010. That's a lot of money saved, and add in the $17 million coming off the books because of the expiration of the deals with Curt Schilling and Jason Varitek, and I think it's safe to say that not only did the Sox make a move that doesn't affect their status as players in the playoff picture this year, this trade helps make them even bigger players in this winter's free agency market. This could prove especially important because, whoever else is available, if Yu Darvish gets posted, the more money you have to bring to that auction, the better.

So, in short, Theo Epstein and company did it. The "prospects" they surrendered were filler players in danger of being crowded out of the 40-man, and Manny was the thorn in the franchise's side who'd long since become infectious. As this proposition goes—lancing that wound, saving perhaps more than $20 million over the next two years, not hurting the lineup now while almost certainly helping it in the next season or two to come—taken together the benefits of the trade provide a range of outcomes to keep everyone happy: fans, statheads, bean-counters, and even player-development types worried about the Rule 5 draft. Consider this nothing short of a brilliant achievement, and the product of an inspired effort."

from baseball prospectus

PITTSBURGH PIRATES

"Traded OF-R Jason Bay to the Red Sox; acquired 3B-R Andy LaRoche and RHP Bryan Morris from the Dodgers; acquired RHP Craig Hansen and 1B/OF-L Brandon Moss from the Red Sox; assigned Morris to Low-A Hickory; optioned MI-R Brian Bixler to Indianapolis (Triple-A); designated CF-L Chris Duffy and RHP Franquelis Osoria for assignment. [7/31]


If the trade with the Yankees was a tentative sort of thing involving the exchange of veteran mediocrities for an off-blue, chambray sort of blue-chipper and three nondescript upper-level hurlers, and the sort of thing that might have caused alarm, Pirates fans can take solace in this deal. This time, Neal Huntington and company got two much better prospects, better than anything they got from the Yankees, not to mention a pair of useful-enough filler types for an organization that needs bodies in every shape and size. While it cost them Bay, it brought them their new best player on the team, because LaRoche will be an All-Star-caliber hitter at third base now that he's free of a Dodgers organization that wasn't treating him at all fairly. Morris is a nifty add as well, a 2006 first-rounder coming back from a 2007 Tommy John surgery who's done good work with the Loons in Low-A, flashing low- to mid-90s heat, a new sinker, an improved change, and a nasty curve. He's been on a workload almost as monitored and structured as Clayton Kershaw's in his comeback, averaging less than five innings per start, but with 72 strikeouts and 31 walks in 81 2/3 IP and a GB/FB ratio of 1.7, he's flashing a live arm, and as a 21-year-old stripling, that's something to take an interest in.

The ballast from the Red Sox doesn't hurt, either. Hansen throws hard and heavy, and maybe an escape from the franchise that promoted him too aggressively will get the former St. John's closer his best shot at carving out a career for himself. Moss should make a nice enough fourth outfielder type on a team that should now be promoting Andrew McCutchen to take over in center, providing the pitching staff with the added benefit of getting a quality center fielder in place while shunting Nate McLouth to a corner and the defensive chores he's better equipped to deal with.

Again, to recap, if getting Tabata was a matter of taking a chance, then getting LaRoche is a case of swapping out an expensive, aging outfielder for a quality everyday player just at the start of his big-league career at a position of organizational need. Morris may well be the second-best prospect he acquired between the two deals, they added some elements of cost control by shedding Bay's contract, and perhaps more fundamentally they addressed their defensive inadequacies by bringing in a better third baseman and making room for a better center fielder (once McCutchen's up). That's the sort of broad-stroke improvements you have to tip your cap to when they're achieved. Huntington warned people off about his not making deals just to make them over the winter—having made this trade, it was clearly worth the wait."

Manny being Manny.



Watch him turn triples into singles...as a hitter---not an outfielder.



Watch him turn singles into triples...as an outfielder---not a hitter.



Watch him whizz.....in the outfield....not the clubhouse.



Watch him look like a vacuum cleaner...in the clubhouse---not the outfield.














e

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...son&id=3513865

From Espn:


The eviction of Ramirez is a story with so many levels that it's impossible to sum them all up with a one-word label such as "winner" or "loser." We recognize that. There's also a value to subtracting a selfish, disruptive, divisive knucklehead like Manny from an otherwise-harmonious, purposeful clubhouse. We recognize that, too.

And Jason Bay is a heck of a player, one who can stick around and patrol left field in Fenway next year, too. We recognize all of that. Honestly, if the Red Sox went out now and won another World Series, it wouldn't shock us a bit.

[+] EnlargeOtto Greule Jr/Getty Images

The Dodgers, second-to-last in the NL in homers, could use Ramirez's bat.
But they still find themselves dumped into the Losers column of this opus because this trade marks the end of a special era in the life of their team. They have a different aura now than they had a week ago. And the reaction of folks all over their division to Manny's unceremonious exit -- an exit subsidized with $7 million of those hard-earned Red Sox dollars, we should note -- told us all we needed to know:

It felt like Mardi Gras for the rest of the AL East.

"Don't get me wrong," said an executive of one AL East club. "The Red Sox do a great job. They utilize every advantage they have, and they use all their resources as well as anyone. But sometimes, I don't think even they realized what they had in Manny. When Manny comes up, you feel like you have to pass out ex-lax to your whole team because everybody gets a sick feeling in their stomach -- especially when he had [David] Ortiz there in the middle with him.

"Look, Jason Bay is a great player. But he's not Manny. You're talking about one of the greatest right-handed hitters in the history of the game. I've seen so many situations where you'd think you've got a game, and then all of a sudden that guy came up and everything changed. I've seen what he does to pitchers. I've seen how he changes games. They'll miss that. That's all I can say."

As a Sox fan, we cant win with him so how much worse can it be w/o him? I mean whats our record been since the all star game? Terrible. We've lost 8 of 9, 6 in a row to the Angels. Too many to the Yankees.
At least he goes to a team I can root for.

I'm as sick of this story as I am of the Brett Favre thing. Both need to go away.

Cant win with him? You won your only two world series in 90 years with him.

Everyone is losing to the angels. The yanks just lost at home to the halos in blowout fashion...do you think they would consider trading jeter?