Still wouldn't be kicking her out of bed, at night or in the morning.

He borrowed the recipe from Pletcher:D

Levine horses get all clear
 

NJ officials have called Levine with the all clear on his horses for anything they tested them on...

Exactly. They can raid and pull blood until the cows come home. They won't find anything unless the tests are capable of finding the current designer drug du jour or be able to see past the masking agents.

There were no 'designer drugs' involved here..

I wonder what would happen when you combine:

1) an above average intellect

2) a indefatigable work ethic

3) long term experience in the game

4) a genuine love for the game

5) a 'gambler's' understanding of the game


You probably would get a trainer that's a little bit better than that pack of NY trainers who can't quite figure out whether their horses are sprinter or routers or prefer dirt of turf; and thus spend YEARS going repeatedly from one to the other. Clearly, there's the OTHER SIDE of this.

I have no problem assuming that Levine is above average and on a hot streak.

Okay....

You obviously know more about the situation than I.

It's not that I know more. Did anyone really think a guy like Bruce Levine was going to use EPO? It's silly. He's been in the game 29 years and NEVER HAD A SINGLE VIOLATION. He's winning at a big clip.. knows that there's scrutiny.. and someone thought he'd jeopardize a 3 decade-long career using something like that? Just didn't make sense. If he is actually 'pressing the envelope', he's doing it the old-fashioned way...

Ok we can go with no EPO.. Save the Smith Barney comment please...So you don't think Levine has found something, perhaps legal. that is currently working in his horses system? Please.. I am not suggesting Levine is a juicer but the best guys are on the cutting edge of the chemical market, meaning if it's out there and legal they are learning about it before people catch up. It's called being ahead of your competition it surely isn't a hot streak. It's a "I am good and I have an advantage currently streak" plain and simple... It's not cheating its beating the system. IMO

It's sad that speculation comes down to it, but there are plenty of drugs, designer or not, that can boost red blood cell counts besides EPO. Did they test for Darbepoietin as well? How about the multitude of synthetic dirvatives developed to treat anemia in humans? I'd sleep better knowing that there is a full panel of these drugs tested for, not just EPO.
When someone is winning at a clip that he is winning at, and their horses fall apart off the claim the way that many of his tend to do, then it is hard to not expect someone to call shenanigans, proof or not.

Again, it is sad - A guy can't win - if he is successful, he'll be accused of cheating. If he loses, he'll get fired. I feel for all of them, they put on the show every day, and get nothing but a bullseye on their backs for it... I personally accept the fact that Leavine is above board and performing at a high level in a perfectly legal manner, because that is what we have to go on. I'd just think it wouldn't be that much more difficult or cost prohibitive to have a nationally sanctioned body run thorough tests via frozen samples.

I wasn't even going to respond, but....

Absolutely, I think a guy like Bruce Levine could use EPO. I'm sorry that I think this, but his peers have eroded my last thread of trust. I'm sure you know Mr. Levine and have formed your opinion from first hand knowledge. I don't know Mr. Levine, so I can only draw my conclusions by looking at his statistics and compare them with other trainers.

I deleted the rest of my lengthy post. My opinion on drugs in racing is like a gnat on an elephant's ass.

I feel like the duck in the Yogi Berra AFLAC commercial.

Are you saying that none of the fairly successful trainers would use EPO right now or are you saying that none of them have ever used it?

From everything I have heard, there were definitely a few guys guys using it a few years ago. I don't know about right now.

look if it isnt a banned substance its hard work and horsemanship get it? or perhaps Mr Byk is levite(a lil jew culture for your KY self) Blackthroat can explain

I'm not from KY, and you shouldn't make assumptions on cultural backgrounds.

I get what you're saying: it ain't cheating if you don't get caught. But let's be clear "beating the system" = cheating. (And I'm not accusing Levine of cheating.)

Agreed Rudeboy...hope it happens soon.

How exactly do we know this? Isnt that the whole problem with the "designer drugs"? That they cant test for what they dont know about? Anybody caught with EPO is just plain stupid. Balco has shown how easy it is to alter an existing drug at the molecular level, render it undetectable and still keep its potency.

Steve...you know better than to use this arguement..."I have too much to lose..." Sounds like Roger Clemens. He didnt fail a drug test either...

I am not implying that Levine is clean or dirty. But the defense that "i have never had a violation" means that they may just be a careful cheater as opposed to the sloppy ones who regularly make headlines. As Eric points out with regularity, it is close to impossible or at least hard to tell who is clean and who isnt anymore. As a trainer I just say that we all pretty much use the same feed, the same hay, the same help, the same tracks, the same vets, the same jockeys...yet some guys seem to have magical powers despite all the similarities. It is hard not to be skeptical when there is no apparent advantage yet the numbers become extraordinary. A clembuterol positive doesnt make a trainer dirty anymore than a "spotless" record makes anyone clean. The REAL drug issue that Andy and others have spoke about wont show up on anybody's record because the commissions are testing for stuff that pretty much went out of style 10 years ago.

Not to get off subject, but the entire thread can't help but remind me of this.... Jim Carrey as Vera De Milo:

http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=718

On a serious note, you only have to look at the power of the pharmaceutical industry to know they have much more money to throw at government than anyone else does and if they see a profit, they'll do anything to protect it. Just ask your grandmother how many pills she takes.

I've heard mention an idea that having the vets work for the track and keep up and be responsible for what they use. Why is that idea not being brought forward.

Finally, enjoy the clip. It's one of my favorites.

Spyder

Funny Clip Spyd!!! He's nuts!!

I hear you.. I was making the point that it seemed ridiculous that NJ officials thought there was a chance he would be caught using EPO. As I said, if he's taking an edge, he's doing it 'conventionally'...

The worst thing that could have happened was the stumbled onto those idiots at the meadowlands. Now that is all they care about. EPO, EPO, EPO...
Where were they in 1998?

Testing for sublimaze.

Respectfully at some point you will need to clarify your position in racing, because sometimes you seem like a journalist and some of the time you are the leader of the "Good" good ole boys club.

If by conventional you are suggesting pure and simple great horsemanship then I suggest you thought the same about Rick Violette's barn when his horses were in super form.. Both stables are full of good owners with great resources and both stables have two outstanding trainers at the helm. Both stable's above normal success were or are of from anything conventional. In due time the Levine machine will calm down, as what works today doesn't work as well tomorrow. Unfortunately, its an arms race just with undectectable elixirs and there isn't the money or comprehensive agencys to maintain the peace or worse balance of power.

You need me to clarify 'taking an edge conventionally'? The term is meant to suggest that Levine may well be doing the kinds of things you suggested in terms of taking liberties within the confines of the rules.

As to what I try to do 'in racing', my first instincts are journalistic having been brought through my training early on as a newspaperman. But I will say that the radio show is designed to be entertainment first and foremost. As such, I try to deliver the news and hard factual elements of the game without turning it into an inquisition.

The show is designed to celebrate and promote the game as opposed to work to expose its' most seemly elements and act as an agent provocateur for change. I trust the ability of a good portion of the game's leadership charged with making the necessary adjustments in the industry. I encourage it as best I can, and don't believe I am in a position to act as the arbitor of who is good/bad or right/wrong in every circumstance. I try to bring the facts forward by providing access to as many people in the game as I can reach and let the fan/listener decide for themselves.

Personally, it's not necessarily relevant whether I care for Rick Dutrow, Steve Asmussen, Jess Jackson, etc., or not... But fans want to hear from them when appropriate, and I feel I have an obligation to be in position to bring them to the listeners. I can't do it if they refuse to come on the show.

Andy Serling and I had this discussion last year. If the show tends to make me come off more as Mike Douglas than Mike Wallace, I can live with that...

Actually closer to Merv..lol

I understand... it's hard to do both well..

OK.. now I'm annoyed...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept If the show tends to make me come off more as Mike Douglas than Mike Wallace, I can live with that...

Classic...

Not that Steve needs me coming to his defense, but he is in a much more delicate position than most of us, the results have come back and they have declared Levine was clean as far as his N.J barn is concerned. He has to go on the what the results say. As a show host the adjective "alledgedly" will only get you so far, but unlike most of us that can look at the negative tests to much chagrin ;) I don't think it's Steve's job to tell us that. Anyone with half a brain of horseracing knowledge can draw their own conclusions.

So based upon this I can conclude that Michael Ivarone doesn't have half a brain since he acts shocked and appalled when his trainers test positive ...

Or he deserves an Oscar nomination...;) :tro: Best supporting owner..

I really wasn't attacking Steve I have no reason to do as such. I am hoping for a racing advocate to come about in the media who has the current exposure that Steve has on ATRAB. A strong daily voice is powerful, racing sure could use a public advocate.. If Steve wishes to run his show as such he is certainly entitled to. Racing needs some help and sometimes media can be a powerful vehicle!

We need a person who is willing to piss off the ole boy network, not take peoples BS without knowledgible rebuttle and truly be an advocate for bettors and horses.. You know like .............

I hear you, I don't disagree in principle. But as a public figure you have to understand you really have to tightrope facts from opinions. It's a slippery slope.

Steve would lose quite a few guests if he took that route...

And they would lose a platform on which to promote themselves. That being said, I fully appreciate Steve's position.

That is why we have Mr. Serling, he has an opinion and isn't afraid to say what is on his mind.

I'm not sure I have ever heard Andy call out a trainer as being dirty, of course I can be wrong. He too as a journalist has to be careful with what bridges he nukes...

yep he certainly fits the bill

Journalists cross bridges they need not nuke them. Tim Russet didn't nuke bridges but he exposed BS and demanded integrity from his guests. I would rather listen to a "meet the press" format on racing then the current listens available.. But that is just me and I don't suggest there is anything wrong with Steve's show as it is what it is...Basically late night TV radio without the top ten list.. which is HIGHLY entertaining for many and serves as an good listen.

I could never put my finger on what that show was missing until now.....


A BAND!!!