Originally Posted by FGFan

Apparently we listened to different interviews because that is not at all what I heard her say, and I just watched it, DVR delayed.

I don't like or dislike Maggi Moss, which is not the forums sentiment. It is very clear in this thread how the forum members percieve her. As well this just plays into the internet hysteria that even surfaced in this thread when someone said Amoss had a positive without any evidence whatsoever, "just a feeling". Well, having a positive and someone suggesting you had a positive are two completely different things.

Your comments are the same, you heard what you wanted to hear and are relaying that interview based on your sentiment.

What she said is that there is no uniformity in the drug testing situation, particularly in Texas. They will not do any bloodwork to perform quantative evidence of doping. She also stated that a LSU Dr. had reviewed the testing and said that it is possible it was a contamination, but because of the way Texas conducts their testing once postive there is no further testing, like bloodwork which is much better standard to use than urine. Or that it had been metabolized, which is much different than injecting to block.

She never implied it was wrong to go after Assmusen or Dutrow. What she did say was that it would be ludicrous for Assmussen to have injected a 1/5 filly in a MSW, what would be the point, particularly in a state like Texas.

She also spoke about the terrible things that do happen in this sport, that horses are abused, blocked, slaughtered and so on. BUT because there is no uniformity state to state, no definitive way to do testing, someone can test positive in Texas but not test positive in Kentucky which has a much better process of testing. The fact there is no standard from track to track this is what she wants to address.


Oh and you forgot to mention another foundation she has established to help owners that can't afford to fix their injured animals and therefore have to euthanize them. Her foundation would help owners to save horses that get injuries that are expensive and let them be retired.

I'm not her cheerleader here, although it sounds like it, I really have no opinion, but if you are going to relay information make it more truthful of what was said and not just your "feelings"

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Gimme a break.....when the whole thing went down with Allday vs Dutrow she came out swinging for Dutrow. Now she is defending Assmussen. She has a history of defending guys who have been caught over and over again. She employs guys like Lake, Contessa, Assmussen. Guys who are cheats. If she wants to "save" the sport , she should pull her horses from these guys and give em to real horsemen who dont have histories of positives. She is a lawyer...she is just spinning things her way.

You are nuts if you think people like her are good for the game.

Originally Posted by Danzig

interesting tho that it's only the same few getting caught with this 'unfair' testing...

as an aside tho--i think it speaks to some on this board, that when they have a problem with a womans opinion and statements, they attack her looks, her figure, and talk about whether she's doable. quite a shame. way to enter the 21st century guys.

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Gimme a break.....when the whole thing went down with Allday vs Dutrow she came out swinging for Dutrow. Now she is defending Assmussen. She has a history of defending guys who have been caught over and over again. She employs guys like Lake, Contessa, Assmussen. Guys who are cheats. If she wants to "save" the sport , she should pull her horses from these guys and give em to real horsemen who dont have histories of positives. She is a lawyer...she is just spinning things her way.

You are nuts if you think people like her are good for the game.

Originally Posted by Danzig

i agree. she comes out with the 'this testing isn't done fairly' defense--but it's only affecting the many-times over cheaters that she is defending. go figure. but i'm sure it's just their bad luck.

and no, it doesn't 'make sense' that asmussen would risk something like that--but jails are FULL of people who you could say the same about--not a very good defense.

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Bah.

As far as attacking her looks, there was a photo of her posted. That will automatically get the comments going. There have been plenty of posts calling Dutrow fat and mocking how much he sweated during the Belmont. For the record, I do not think he is doable.

This board doesn't just pick on women, we are equal opportunity offenders.

Originally Posted by FGFan

I never said I thought one way or the other whether or not they are good for the game. I just relayed what was actually said and NOT what you thought was said.

It's perfectly fine if you want to relay your take on an interview if you preference it by saying MY TAKE ON WHAT SHE SAID IS, or WHAT I GOT OUT OF THAT LAME INTERVIEW IS.....but you didn't you relayed it as fact which it wasn't even remotely what was discussed.

BTW she also didn't say it was sabotage, she said she thought it could possibly be contamination based on the findings of a renowned specialist. Another thought you had that you relayed as fact.

So let's see already in this thread we have people declaring that trainers got positives that never happened, discussions on how doable a woman owner is, and then your synopis of an interview that wasn't even remotely factual.

Yeah right and this all adds to making the game better.....:rolleyes:...Gimme a break.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I think one of the main reasons that some of these cheating trainers are doing so well is because they use nerve blocks to take away the pain. Biancone was doing it with snake venom. These other guys are using stuff like mepivicaine and lidocaine.

The question is how they are normally able to give mepivicaine without it showing up. They must have some method of masking it that works 99% of the time. Asmussen, Pletcher, Mullins, etc. have all been caught using it. I highly doubt that the times they got caught were the only times that they used it. I think the times they got caught were just the tip of the iceberg.

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Let's look at Pletcher today. Runs two horses today that ran lights out great in Kentucky (where testing seems a bit lax compared to other places). They then both run horrendously /dead last today in NY. Coincidence? I think not. While Pletcher may be a "good guy" and pleasant on tv, it's beyond obvious since last summer at Saratoga that he has completely changed his ways in NY.

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Pletcher's NY domination is definitely over. . . not sure why. . .

Originally Posted by stonegossard

My take wasnt factual? Please. Go back to your DVR and watch it again. Go back and actually read what I said.

And get off your f#ckin high horse ...I dont need someone like yourself telling me how to post on here. If you dont agree with what I said fine...but dont start this bs about how I should post.

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Bah.

As far as attacking her looks, there was a photo of her posted. That will automatically get the comments going. There have been plenty of posts calling Dutrow fat and mocking how much he sweated during the Belmont. For the record, I do not think he is doable.

This board doesn't just pick on women, we are equal opportunity offenders.

Originally Posted by FGFan

I don't need to go back and watch or read your posts. I wouldn't waste the time, mostly I ignore whatever it is you say.

The sentiment is the same.
I don't need someone such as yourself, the self-appointed, definitely not funny, board bully telling me anything.
If I choose to sit on my "f#ckin high horse" than I will.

If your such a fan of the game why do you complain about it so much?

I'm not telling you how to post, but their is a distinction between peoples take on things and what is the truth, obviously you can't understand that.
If you don't like it well I don't really care.

I guess from now on we'll call it the Derby Trail rumor board because Stone Gossard wants it that way....:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by FGFan

That kind of stuff..the doable question...well I could care less about. It is what it is, best not wander into the rank-em threads if that stuff offends womans. I find it kinda funny.

And as far as Dutrow...I agree, I don't think he is doable either !

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Board bully? Too funny. Because I disagree with you I am now a bully. I do post whats on my mind and dont sugarcoat things...big difference between that and a bully. As far as the game? I dont complain more than anyone else out there. If you are content with the current situation of horse racing (drugs...etc) then so be it. I think owners like Maggi Moss who continue to use questionable trainers are not good for the game. I dont see how any real horse racing fan could applaud someone like that. As far as her little horsey farm...IEAH is doin something very similar...does that make them good for the game? I said in my posts its ridiculous that she defends guys like DUtrow and Assmussen (as she did today)...not sure why you keep twisting around what I say.

If you dont like my posts fine...then dont bother with your rather ignorant posts to me. Funny how someone who ignores my posts knows so much about me.

Why would you call it my rumor board? Last time I checked I am not the one on here with the inside info posting rumors. In fact I NEVER post things I hear from people in the business. You seem like a very confused individual. :zz: :zz: :zz:

Originally Posted by monipenny

If you want to change the game of horse racing then be a outspoken advocate about what ills this game and not just on message boards. Why don't you start buying some horses and selecting trainers that don't use drugs and start yelling from your soap box how your starting a precedent to cleaning the game up. Money talk$ and bull$hit walks bub. I also agree strongly with much that FGfan stated about Maggi Moss. Everyone is entitled to a fair defense and she is coming to their defense. She is also exactly what we need for the game by the way. Every horse can't be a Grade 1 winner, and most horses she runs are claimers and upper level allowance horses.

Originally Posted by monipenny

If you want to change the game of horse racing then be a outspoken advocate about what ills this game and not just on message boards. Why don't you start buying some horses and selecting trainers that don't use drugs and start yelling from your soap box how your starting a precedent to cleaning the game up. Money talk$ and bull$hit walks bub. I also agree strongly with much that FGfan stated about Maggi Moss. Everyone is entitled to a fair defense and she is coming to their defense. She is also exactly what we need for the game by the way. Every horse can't be a Grade 1 winner, and most horses she runs are claimers and upper level allowance horses.

Originally Posted by FGFan

No not confused, I learned early on you pretty much argue with everybody over anything, so I skim over your mostly rude posts. For the most part all you seem to do is call people idiots and morons, trying to be a self appointed bully, not because you disagree with me. I could care less if you disagree with me. And seriously you are not funny, well maybe once in awhile, but there are far better comedians here than you, so spare us.

How comical you think my posts to you are ignorant. I just adopted and adapted your mode of posting.
Obviously you don't like being spoken to the way you speak to others. Isn't that called whining?

So lets get the record strait, maybe you should sharpen your reading skills...I said I neither liked nor disliked Maggi Moss. My opinion of her is not going to change anything, she will still have horses that I will bet on or against.

What I said was that you relayed information of an interview as if it was fact when your statements were false, gee I would call that rumor. Just like Amoss having a positive over a "feeling".
Obviously it was your perception of it which of course is fine, but don't represent it as the facts. There are casual readers that don't have access to HRTV and would take your synopsis as the truth when in fact it was not. Leading to....RUMORS!!!

I also never said I applaud them. Again you've missed the point. As stated by her today, that TX has zero tolerance therefore no commission to go to appeal therefore it has to go to court. In other juridsticions you can take it to an appeals board. I never said you post things from people in the business. So who is twisting what here....

Oh and there is little difference from the way you post your opinions and not sugarcoating..you come off as an idiot, moron(words you use when addressing others) bully.

Originally Posted by monipenny

If you want to change the game of horse racing then be a outspoken advocate about what ills this game and not just on message boards. Why don't you start buying some horses and selecting trainers that don't use drugs and start yelling from your soap box how your starting a precedent to cleaning the game up. Money talk$ and bull$hit walks bub. I also agree strongly with much that FGfan stated about Maggi Moss. Everyone is entitled to a fair defense and she is coming to their defense. She is also exactly what we need for the game by the way. Every horse can't be a Grade 1 winner, and most horses she runs are claimers and upper level allowance horses.

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Put yourself in Maggi Moss' shoes. She wakes up monday and says I want to do something good for the game. I think I should:

A) Pull my horses from these trainers who have checkered pasts and give them to trainers who might not have such crazy win percentages as the checkered ones, but are successful.

B) Say that guys like Dutrow, Assmussen are not the problem and we should look past them and go after the testing labs instead. Then go on to instead put my energy into defending these guys.


She is choosing B. There is a lot wrong with that. Sorry if you cant see that.

One of the ways to get rid of this problem is for owners to stop sending horses to guys who juice. She chooses not to and still use them. So I dont want to hear how she is so good for the game.

Originally Posted by Danzig

fwiw, stone, i agree with you completely on all of the above. plenty of clean trainers out there--if maggi's contention is that testing is flawed, isn't it amazing how it keeps tagging the same few guys?!?! what are the odds? she wants them excused, as she uses them, and doesn't want anyone pointing fingers at her-and they should be pointing directly at her and others who hire these trainers--they hire them because they want that edge, they want that win regardless of how it's obtained.

Originally Posted by stonegossard

I love how since I dont agree with you I missed the point. Your ignorance continues to show. Moss said on tv that the problem is much bigger than Dutrow and Assmussen and we should basically look past them. She blames the states and their testing policies. Maybe you get a different version of HRTV. That is a crock of sh#t. These guys know the rules and bend them ALL the time.


Oh yeah....you might want to check the definition of the word rumor in your dictionary. You seemed to be very confused on what it means.

Originally Posted by GPK

Let the record show that I think I am very doable. Im easy too:)

Originally Posted by cowgirlintexas

Probably count on one hand the number that are just as successful.
Pletcher is the obvious 1st, as well as most of Lukas' protégées. A few year back one of Vienna's assistants Tim Yakteen looked like he was going to go someplace, but has sorta fizzled out since.

Originally Posted by monipenny

If you want to change the game of horse racing then be a outspoken advocate about what ills this game and not just on message boards. Why don't you start buying some horses and selecting trainers that don't use drugs and start yelling from your soap box how your starting a precedent to cleaning the game up. Money talk$ and bull$hit walks bub. I also agree strongly with much that FGfan stated about Maggi Moss. Everyone is entitled to a fair defense and she is coming to their defense. She is also exactly what we need for the game by the way. Every horse can't be a Grade 1 winner, and most horses she runs are claimers and upper level allowance horses.

Originally Posted by Scav

I missed this gem of a thread, but I will say this to FGFan. I do not have the time to research Amoss and any possible positives that he has HAD. BUT I will say that he might be the ONLY trainer that could get Perfect Drift to win. This guy moves up 5 year old horses better then anyone, and I am not talking 1-2 pts improvements, 5-7 pts improvements off the claim. Don't be naive

Originally Posted by FGFan

You still keeping missing the point...don't know what to say to that.

Let me try one more time....maybe if I put it in a different color....
My issue was with the FALSE information, your thoughts, you posted as if it was fact.
How much clearer can I make it. It has nothing to do with what you or I think of Maggi Moss, Assmussen or Dutrow. It has to do with you stating your opinions as fact.
Then of course you have to get all "looney" as if you just came out of the 'bin" and got all defensive.
I never said I condoned anything that was said or done.., I never defended their practices....well I did the new horse foundation for injured horses, hard to hate on that, but I'm sure you will.
You seem to think I disagree with your perception of them, when actually you wouldn't know any better because you got defensive. I actually never disagreed with you, I just said your portrayal of the interview was not factual.


I think you need this definition more than I do.
Rumor

n.

1. A piece of unverified information of uncertain origin usually spread by word of mouth.
2. Unverified information received from another; hearsay.

You just didn't like I verified what you said was not the truth it was just your opinion of an interview, so now you have to call me names.

I get it, you just think by calling people names they will concede to your opinion. You just like to argue and hate on people, boards, horses, owners, trainers.
Why do you play the game if you hate everything about it?

Let me ask you this, when betting do you use any of your hated trainers/owners horses? If not good for you, if so then you are a hypocrite.

And as far as Moss, well he also said that lasix has no benefits, to which Peter Lurrie responded they had a horse that bled and put it on lasix and it doesn't bleed. Moss had no repsonse.

Can you ever have a discussion without calling people names that dont' agree with you?
Maybe I shouldn't have asked you questions because you will carry on your usual mode of operation and call me names.

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Obviously you and I saw the show and interpretted what SHE said much differently. Nothing I posted was false. It's funny how you disagree with something I post and call it false.

I think that if Moss builds a center to help old/injured horses thats great. Really. But that wont do a damn thing to help the game. She will be trying to fix a problem after the fact. Maybe if she didnt employ the trainers that end up hurting these horses, there wouldnt be a need for such a center.

Again you seem very offended with the way I post. I am sorry you dont like how I post....and seem to know a lot about me. When did I say I hate the game so much. Been following it for 23 yrs. You seem to be implying something which isnt true. Maybe I should start a thread about you spreading riumors about me? And please explain to me how betting on a trainer like Lake is being a hypocrite. Thats too damn funny. Also beyond a pathetic example. Seriously....think before you post some of this nonsense. Or maybe in your best interest just ignore me.

Originally Posted by Scav

I missed this gem of a thread, but I will say this to FGFan. I do not have the time to research Amoss and any possible positives that he has HAD. BUT I will say that he might be the ONLY trainer that could get Perfect Drift to win. This guy moves up 5 year old horses better then anyone, and I am not talking 1-2 pts improvements, 5-7 pts improvements off the claim. Don't be naive

Originally Posted by Cajungator

Odd, since you were the one that started this thread. :p

Originally Posted by FGFan

Oh now what, is that supposed to be some kind of cyber threat?

Frankly I don't know anything about you other than what you post here of which is almost always rude and antagonistic, that's why I generally skip over your posts.
I also knew you couldn't respond without calling me, or anyone else you disagree with, names.

As far as being offended by your posts, no not at all, I just think it's rude, ridiculous, and here's your favorite word..PATHETIC. If you did have something worthwhile to say it gets lost in all your nasty comments. If your attempting to be funny, it's not, leave it to the real board comedians.

You still don't get it, your opinions, your interpertation, are not a factual rendetion of that interview. That's all I was saying, but apparently you cannot understand that. It's pointless to try to explain anything to you I'd have better results talking to a brick wall. You can have the last word, I've lost interest.

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

A two page, soon to be three page thread on Maggi Moss that's turned serious in nature. Sickening.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Try to follow along.......it goes 1.....2......3......4.......5.