"Turner sensed the same fear of humiliation at work in Desormeaux’ performance—a kind of “no mas” ride that had the same bad odor to it."

Finally, someone who agrees with me! :D

Yeah, I read that, as well as another piece with Turner's comments. I understand his mindset and where's he's coming from, but I don't see it as being that black and white. Personally, I think Desormeaux made a judgement call. I don't think it was to "save face" or anything of the like. I'd rather see Kent pull the horse up than to see the horse potentially get hurt, or even go down on the track from duress -- which while it didn't happen, that could have been what Desormeaux was trying to avoid.

The bottom line is that we just don't know what we don't know. Hindsight is always 20/20, brilliant thinking and obvious.

Eric

Who....Roberto Duran?

I don't know how Turner could say that the horse would have beaten most of the field. I don't know which race he was watching. It looked to me like BB might have beaten one horse if he didn't ease.

By the way, as I mentioned before, in the interview with Dan Patrick, Desormeaux did admit that, "The only instruction I was given was, 'If he can't win, take it easy on him'."

I think it is pretty obvious that the connections had serious concerns about the horse's condition going into the race or they would have never given Kent those instructions.

I didn't understand that either. I don't think he would have even beaten one horse -- however, I personally don't think that is the reason Desormeax pulled him up. Turner's opinion is Turner's opinion, and I can certainly understand people agreeing with him.

Also, as far as the instructions, I think that looking at that is taking the comment out of context and being very myopic. I don't think the instructions were given with the thought that the race played out the way it did.

Eric

Someone please call PETA...

If you have a horse that you think is one of the greatest horses ever, you think he's doing great, and you think he can win by 10 lengths, are you going to instruct the jockey, "If he can't win, take it easy on him."?

If you had no concern about the horse's condition, then those instructions make no sense.

Sure, I can see that. But again, I think there is more to it than that. The content doesn't make sense, but the context is a much broader conversation.

I don't blame Dutrow here and I don't blame Desormeaux. That certainly doesn't make it right and it certainly doesn't preclude one from laying blame on the other. This is a situation where it's very easy to blame the jock. If the jock made a judgement call and it turned out to be wrong, then you are never going to be satisfied with the outcome that got played out.

Eric

Why should anyone be blamed?

you are right on the money there. he's not slammed like before.

You know what -- that's exactly right in my mind. But of course in the media -- educated or uneducated -- the first thing they look at is the "why" and "who is to blame". That's the underlying theme of every thread here. Tell me Kent Desormeaux is not the fall guy here.

Like you said though, there doesn't have to be blame here.

Eric

I'm not blaming anyone. I certainly don't think Desormeaux did anything wrong.

In terms of running the horse with that quarter crack, it's a judgement call. I have some trainers that said they would have never run him with that quarter crack. I've got another trainer who said that he had a horse pop a quarter crack that looked just as bad as that 3 days before a huge race. They ran the horse and he won easily. So you just never know.

Seems like a valid point.

i thought it was kents fault.

Imho the most likely factors that potentially contributed in some way shape or form to Big Browns performance in the Belmont....
6th lifetime start.. first time inside on a dirt track
Wear and tear of 3rd big race in five weeks
Qtr crack
Extreme heat
Troubled trip in the first qtr mile

I agree with you. I don't think "the decision" to run the horse was in and of itself is the issue either. Nobody can say what they would have done -- because they weren't "in it" so to speak. Actually, anyone can say what they would have done, but it's nothing more than hypothetical. No different than the people who say what they would do if they won the lottery or what they would do if they owned such a horse. Circular discussion or arguement.

Eric

As I have told you before, owners and trainers don't make up stories about hairline fractures. It is totally the opposite. They will often tell you that there is nothing wrong with a horse when there is in fact something wrong. They will also sometimes downplay injuries. Sometimes they'll even say that the horse has a bruised foot, when in fact he has something more serious.

But I have never seen or heard of an owner or trainer claiming a horse has a serious injury when he doesn't. When you are going to stand a horse at stud, you want people to think the horse was sound. The last thing in the world that you would do is say that the horse had a hairline fracture if he didn't.

I agree with you that BB will probably never run again. But it won't be beacuse of a made-up injury. It will most likely be because of his foot. By the time that foot is 100%, the year will pretty much be over.

yeah, that's true. what a shame. well, dutrow went from cheater to rogue. can't wait til biancone comes back, gets a big horse...maybe they can come up with a charming way to describe him as well.

That is some interesting stuff Rupert and if you watched Dutrow toward the end of the week, you could kind of pick up a little bit of worry with his body language and all if not his words.

I totally believe this. that horse was not right on saturday and he was ultimately done in by a couple of different factors.

Snake Charmer?

oh, and one other, VERY important question...

so does this mean servis is smarter than dutrow thought??????

snake in the grass

I mentioned the same thing about Frankel, from my memory he almost never has been slammed, while Pletcher during some of his seemingly unbeatable streaks he went on in 06 and 07 would raise the odd eyebrow. I also found it interesting that Dutrow and Frankel have an association/friendship where they use each others barns when they ship horses into a locale that they need to stable for a horse.

Thanks for the clarification, I would hope it was only a smattering. When you get booed in N.Y I guess you can say you made it baby.

Could this group get any more dysfunctional?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/horse...sormeaux_N.htm

Iavarone said Big Brown will probably be pointed toward the Aug. 3 Haskell Invitational at New Jersey's Monmouth Park as a prep race for the Aug. 23 Travers Stakes. He is not contemplating a jockey change.

"I don't like that move," Dutrow said of the Haskell. He said he'd prefer to train up to the Travers.

I like Cauthen's comment..

I don't believe them, if I were a betting man. Big Brown will be at Saratoga in the Travers with Edgar Prado aboard. Call it an educated guess.

I find Bailey, Stevens and Cauthen's comments far more interesting than what the owner thinks, where he wants to race next, etc. Sure, I want to hear what Dutrow thinks and where he wants to race him. That will be bantered around 100 times between now and then. Maybe between now and next week.

Eric

If Iavarone wasnt such an egomaniac yes they would be at the Travers with Prado up. That being said, for a liar, fraud, and an egomaniac, it can be very difficult to admit you dont have a clue whats going on. He may infact push Big Brown over to Jersey thinking he knows best. Dutrow may be a sleezy guy, but he knows what hes doing. Any training or spotting of Big Brown should be done by Dutrow, not Mr Iavarone

Bailey and Stevens are dead on the money.

The orange is squeezed dry, I highly doubt that horse runs again

I like how the track was described as " deep and heavily cushioned " as though, if it were true, that was a bad thing. In light of recent events in this TC that would have been most preferred. Of course, the times during the day are conveniently ignored.

Whatever works as an excuse....the weather, the track, the jockey, etc, etc. The bottom line is that the horse lost. It happens. It's racing. Big Brown was never as good as was suggested. He's obviously a lot better than he ran Saturday. But, so what, he lost, it's horse racing, it happens. Time to move ahead and stop complaining about the past.

Check, check, check.

In my opinion the problem with this game at the highest levels again goes back to the breeders. They always have to find an excuse on why he's not the superhorse they paid $50 million for, to justify their horrifically bad investment to potential shareholders/buyers of stud duty. You know and I know he's an excellent horse who had a bad day, and don't really need an explanation in this case. When he returns we can draw a line through the race, and see what that leaves.

because he was promoted as unbeatable there is naturally a cycle of finger pointing, face saving, and general "CYA" going on here. it is mostly bluster from what I can tell and has a circus-like feel to it.

i wonder, should he come back to race again later in the year, just how confident they will be going into the race? in other words will they tone down the rhetoric a notch and not cast the outcome as a foregone conclusion.

except in this case they didnt really pay 50 million for him. My totally non scientific poll of friends who breed horses found virtually no one willing to breed to this horse for a big ticket. I dont know that there was that much actual demand for the horse as a stallion. Much of the 50 million dollar figure may have served more as a recruiting tool for future investors than real money.

For those interested in the stallion aspect of this deal -- nobody paid or got $50m. The farm "bought" the breeding rights, as a % of the ownership, based upon $50m.

According to people in the industry, principals, there was not strong indications of interest for shares in this horse. Many who might have been interested wanted to wait and see how the "rest of the story played out" so to speak.

Just look at the economics -- the stud fee, which drives the share price; the # of mares he would have to breed and (what most tend to forget about) the # of mares in foal, the # of live foals (all formulaic for the syndication), and so on. Now, those #'s just fell apart. For it to be feasible, he has to come back and make the Belmont a "draw a line through it" race.

Eric

Excellent point.

Eric

http://www.drf.com/news/article/95610.html

Big Brown to return in Haskell
By DAVID GRENING

ELMONT, N.Y. - Kentucky Derby and Preakness winner Big Brown will make his next start in the $1 million Haskell Invitational at Monmouth Park on Aug. 3, co-owner Michael Iavarone said Thursday.

"The Haskell's clearly a first target right now," said Iavarone, who heads the International Equine Acquisitions Holdings Inc. stable that owns 75 percent of Big Brown.

It will elude him again Steve. A horse can get you respectability but you have to live it to keep it. From everything I've heard, he's not well liked for a whole host of reasons.

what are they whining about ?
its a million doller race, over a speed favoring track.
i would run him there .

isn't Monmouth deep?