Didn't see your post before I fired away...

My apologies.

And my inclusion of Purge isn't really justified. He didn't do too much.

Slipped that Grade One win in and off to the shed.

There a lot here like that

This comment says it all :tro:

Bunch of crazytalk in this thread.

2004 field was infinitely better than this group...

Just not the belmont champion...or triple crown champion

I miss Smarty :(

Almost felt like the days gone by when he was making his bid for the crown. Wonder if we will ever see that type of enthusiasm again over a horse. Was a really great story all the way around.

It isnt even close no matter how you feel about Big Brown or Smarty Jones. 2004's overall group was undoubtedly faster. Regardless, its not like it would have made too much of a difference in Smarty's fate. His belmont was slow and its not like it took an earth shattering performance to beat him.

you're thinking of ready's image, who I believe is also running Saturday in the Woody Stephens.
Ready's Echo is also a pletcher horse, and seems to actually want more ground. despite being by More than Ready.
He's a deep closer, who showed an explosive turn of foot in his maiden race last summer, and then again in his maiden win this past March.
He just missed in an ill-timed ride by JV in an allowance race at Keenland, and then didn't run until the very end in the Peter Pan.
He's over his head here, and with his running style, 3rd is probably his ceiling, unless Denis or Cork and/or Casino drive both exert too much energy early, then I could see him running up for a non-threatening 2nd.

I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that a More than Ready with Kingmambo as a damsire could travel a route of ground. More than Ready has actually had some pretty significant winners on the grass going long in both Australia and Europe in his short career.

Agree with a lot of you that the field in general was tougher, and the fact that Birdstone won a G1 on this track was huge.

I don't remember that 2004 crop being great, but I guarantee there were more than one or two that had posted 100 Beyers in routes, unlike this year's group.

If this means anything, Jerry Brown of Thorograph has a $25 bet with a TG board member on who hits the finish line first, the member has Big Brown, and Jerry Brown has ANAK NAKAL :)

I may be mis-remembering, but didn't desormeax make quite early moves with Real Quiet in both the KY Derby and Preakness and get away with it?? I'm almost certain at least the Derby was a very early move. Wasn't he just repeating what worked in the first two legs?

I'm anxious to see his babies race. Shouldn't be too long.

It's always good to get disappointment out of the way as quickly as possible.

His ride on Medaglia D'oro wasn't much better, he should have won that year also. At 18-17/1 if my memory serves me correct.

Yes, he should have won going 12furlongs on a horse that was 1-6 beyond 9f and the one in which he did win was in the slop against a horse coming back from a 180+ layoff.

Kent did nothing wrong on MDO. The horse simply didnt want to go that far that fast.

I disagree, as per Kent D 's weakness at times he moved early and got caught on the inside of Sarava on a track that doesn't favor being on the inside. Run the race 3 times, and In my opinion Sarava is not a better horse than Medaglia Doro.

A little perpective about Medaglia Doro's record over 9 furlongs, once you throw out the derby (which he pretty much was wiped out at the start but still finished 4th) and preakness, he finished 2nd to Candy Ride in the Pacific Classic in a race run in 1:59 to a horse that earned a 121 beyer, he finished second in the BC to Pleasantly Perfect while contesting a hot pace with Congaree, and he narrowly got beaten in the Dubai World Cup to Pleasantly Perfect by 3/4 of a lengths. Yes you are correct in that 1-6 stat, but let's be Realistic he was running against some awfully nice horses, in some very tough races.

CSC I think you need to go over to Youtube and watch the race again. MDO's running style was being up and on the lead. War Emblem made the early move inside so he moved to repulse the bid. He kept MDO in the 2-3 path the whole way. The only reason Sarava was on the outside is because he was the 12 horse and Edgar kept him outside. Im reasonably sure that most any jockey would not be worried about the 70-1 shot on the outside. Kent rode to instructions and Frankel said after the race there was no problem with the ride. The only reason he lost the mount was because Frankel kept MDO at Saratoga for the summer and Bailey was his Go to Guy on the east coast.

As far as being 1-6, you want me to throw out half the races with lame excuses. In his second to Candy Ride, he got smoked and he finished second because it was a four horse field. He finished second to PP twice. Yes another nice horse but i dont think as good as MDO up to 9f. I think MDO only lost one race up to 9f (the wood).

So what do the numbers tell me? Without subjectively picking your way through, MDO was a horse that was great up 9f and not great beyond.

Here is the replay of the 2002 Belmont. Yep Medaglia Doro sure packs it in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYcdUcjQNu4

I respectively disagree. I will concede one part he was probably at his best at 1 1 /8. However that doesn't mean he couldn't get 1 1/4 or he shouldn't have won the Belmont.

[quote=CSC]I disagree, as per Kent D 's weakness at times he moved early and got caught on the inside of Sarava on a track that doesn't favor being on the inside. Run the race 3 times, and In my opinion Sarava is not a better horse than Medaglia Doro.

QUOTE]

How do you know if it didnt favor being on the inside THAT DAY? That changes day to day. Sometimes the rail is dead and sometimes it isnt. If Kent is an idiot for being inside so were 3/4 of the other jockeys in that field including Victor who made his move on War Emblem to the inside.

Of course MDO was a better horse than Sarava and no one would ever question that. But on that day at 12f? Sarava had it his way although it might even be fair to say that MDO ran a better race.

That horse NEVER packed it in and no one said he did. He just couldnt get it done.

Fair enough...I respect your opinion. MDO was a fine horse. I just dont think he wanted to go that far. Either way, its done now.

I understand your argument, thanks. I think and believe MDO's best distances are probably 9 furlongs and less, that I think we both agree on. Now saying that he did finish 2nd 5 times from 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 all grade 1 races. The lowest beyer of 4 races that were beyered was 104 in the Belmont and his beyers ranged from 104-106-117-118. Now beyers don't necessarily mean a horse is great, but I think it is a good measure of his quality in this instance.

At 9f, MDO could be the best horse of this decade. I know that is a statement but i think it can be supported. I always had a lot of respect for the horse. I was there when he lost that race to Buddha in the wood, when he beat Repent at Toga and when he lost in the BC in 2003.

The only race where i saw the jockey get that horse beat was the bailey ride in the preakness. Frankel lost his mind and that is why kent got him in the belmont.

The belmont is a tough race on the jockey because it is a distance the horse has never travelled before nor will he ever travel again after an excruciating campaign on a young horse. The usual race riding techniques can win you minor battles but lose the war. Did you notice in that belmont how kent left the door open for War Emblem inside then closed it shut for about 3 furlongs before the inside horse let War Emblem through at the rail? Sometimes, the jockey has no choice but to go. So what was Kent's choice here? He had the favorite (war emblem) on the ropes and war emblem trying to press on and steal it around the turn. So do you sit back and continue rating and hope war emblem dies or do you pummel him into submission when you have the chance? Do you continue to fight your horse who is ready to roll?

He moved when he was supposed to and anyone in the game would tell you the same thing. War Emblem forced his hand with the early inside move. Racing luck and distance conspired against MDO that day, not the ride.

Now in the real quiet race, he moved early. much much too early. In this race he sat chilly until war emblem made the move and his instructions were not to let war emblem get alone on the lead.

Don't take this the wrong way but you don't actually read/take seriously the trip comments on this board do you?

There's nothing I like better than discussing the nuances of trips as there are so many interesting things that happen in races. Unfortunately, lately, as a result of experience, most of these discussions are INTERNAL.

More power to you.

Do you guys remember what Birdstone's PPs looked like before the Belmont?

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/04belmont.pdf

Those are no better than most that will be in this year's Belmont. Purge is really the only one that would stand out against this field as bad as it is. And I'm not convinced in the least that Big Brown is even as good as Smarty Jones.

No shame in that at all. Candy ride was Ghostzapper talented. but MDO got smoked that day.

Master David would get play in this field, let alone Rock Hard Ten, Eddington, and Purge, who would be 2nd choice. In Master David's PP's, EVERY SINGLE runner who hit the board was eventually a graded stakes winner but one. Birdstone's PP's look pretty damned good relative to this field. This field is TERRIBLE absent BB and Casino Drive and maybe Denis of Cork.

Damn you for bringing Master David into this. :mad:

:p

This is a terrible field no doubt but I think people are vastly overrating the 2004 field because of what Eddington and RHT did as 4yos and what Birdstone did in this race and the Travers. Going into the race it really didn't look like that much on paper.