Umm. . . Weren't you the one who said Visionaire would win this race by 15 lengths?

This guy said that.

Explains alot.


I guess he has locked up The Idiot of the Month award for May.

Is it April Fool's day every day in your world ?


You honestly think First Defence ran better than Commentator the other day?

It's easier to set wicked fractions then chase them?

Where in god's name do you come up with this stuff ?


Nice opininion there Charles Manson jr.

Not very good...fine...just like EVERY other 3 yr old except BB and Casino Drive.

I dont think a TON of him...but in this year's crop he is ok. Gotham was a bad field..as was Fl Derby...Hutcheson...Lecomte...and every other 3 yr old race.

You think enough of him to make him the 15 length winner of the Ohio Derby.

LOL, this whole thing started because you said Visionaire would win this race by 15 lengths. I never said the other two were tons better than him, I was just pointing out how ridiculous that was.

Nice spelling there douchenozzle. Why don't you jump off my sack? At least Andy is funny when he breaks my balls.

YES! This is the Joey I know and adore. :cool:

Rumor is that after Garrett Gomez goes to Ohio to ride Z Fortune to the Ohio Derby win, he's gonna DH for the Cleveland Indians for awhile.

Can't be any worse than Travis Hafner, I wouldn't think.

I'll throw in Stolen Chevy along with the two Derby also rans, but I like in the win spot Cherokee Artist...the fresh face ;)

I think the fact that Celtic Meal is in the race will probably ensure that Stolen Chevy has little chance here.
I doubt that I will end up betting this race, but if I do, I agree with you on Cherokee Artist.


To me it certainly seems like Smooth Air only wants one turn, but if he is ever going to win a two-turn graded stakes race, this is probably it. I'm STILL trying to figure out why some people here thought he was a contender going 10f.

I was being sarcastic.....my bad. But seriously I think he is good enough to handle this putrid field.

Was being sarcastic....sorry about that. But in all seriousness I think he could beat this field......rather pathetic bunch.

It's nothing personal...anyone who thinks that FD ran a better race than Commentator deserves Idiot of the Month. If needed there can be multiple winners for May.

But Dew's worked so hard for the honor.

Seriously though, I never said FD ran better on Monday. I said I thought he's as good as Commentator, maybe better. That may or may not prove to be true (depending on one's criteria). For the record, I don't think anybody in the Met ran all that well.

LOL at douchenozzle.

Come on Joey. He's clearly reasonably talented, but has now bombed in two of his three biggest tests. Commentator has does some great things on the racetrack. Honestly, there is zero chance he is close to as good as Commentator.

The unfortunate thing is that First Defence might have had a shot to beat Benny the Bull in the True North. An outside shot but maybe catching that one in his first start since Dubai would have evened things up a little. I understand why Frankel took a shot in the Met Mile, as it would have meant ten times as much, but ultimately if First Defence is going to do anything it will probably be at 6F or MAYBE 7F.

The simple fact is he's been a major disappointment and if he wasn't a Jeddmonte/Frankel horse, based on his overall pps, nobody would really pay him much mind.

the relative talent comparision between Commentator and First Defence was played out perfectly in the Met Mile. It wasn't the greatest looking race in the end but one thing that should have come out of the result is that First Defence was no match.

It's easy sometimes, at least in our minds, to compare horses from the same barn and I can't help but think of Latent Heat. Well, Latent Heat at least won the Malibu, albeit with a perfect trip, but he too was ultimately a disappointment. He, however, would have drowned First Defence.

But, you're absolutely right, Monday's race showed the chasm of difference in their talents. Commentator at 7 is still much better than First Defence who should be running in peak form midway through his 4YO year. There's simply no comparison between the two horses.

I said the same thing about Divine Park, and I don't see you giving me **** about that. ;)

Because I agreed with you at the time about Divine Park's chances on Monday. It was First Defence I said you were nuts about.

Divine Park is still a long way from being the kind of horse Commentator was at one time in his career. He, at his peak, appears to be somewhere in Commentator's league as a 7YO.

whos better

z fortune, your round, cherokee artist or commentator?

^^^^
out of the ones facing off in Ohio

Depends on who gets to the lead. :D

you really think Commentator could get a Mile&1/8th ?

Well he did run a 123 BSF at 1 1/8.

pffft 3 years ago, and the effort pretty much relegated him to gradeII status.

Commentator would beat those three horses by double digits - I'm assuming you're just joking. . .

yes


EDIT:eek:
what a race

Doubt commentator runs back on a week's vacation. Scratch the superhorse.

Your Round is one of the few here that doesn't seem to be crippled by 9furlongs. I like him to either win or be in the money. Hopefully somewhat below the radar with such names as Smooth Air in the mix.

Z Fortune prefers a mile, but this is his class. He is also a big beast. If he can get a good trip he can bid here.

cherokee is probably too green.

Your Round/ZFortune & hoping the public jumps on the air up there

No comment on Dew.......


I think Commentator is a better horse than FD...showed it the other day the way he put him away after being passed. Never been a big fan of FD....

I thought The Met was a good race. Commentator ran his eyeballs out...although he got a perfect set up, Divine Park ran well.....after that though you are right....no one else ran.

I bet Lord Snowdown for the 48th straight time.....when will I learn.

Yes...was about to get mad at him for calling me that...but damn...thats a great friggin word.

I think Smooth Air is going to be very tough in the Ohio Derby. Looking forward to him winning

It sure is. LOL :D

mr. t pitys that flanel wearing poser fool........

If I could bet this race I'd play Cherokee Artist:mad: Seems like this is the race where alot of Derby hopefuls go to start their fade into oblivion.:rolleyes:

Smooth Air is solid.

How many he win by? Glad Cherokee Artist got bet way down because I wanted to play him.

I don't know why I'm going to try this but here goes. I don't think that First Defence is a better horse than Commentator is. Not even close. Just like I don't think Lamar Odom is a better basketball player than Kevin Garnett is. Again, not close. What Commentator and Garnett have in common is what they are good at, they are GREAT at. Commentator, when allowed to run alone and control a pace, is as brilliant as we've seen in a while. Garnett, when allowed to be a complimentary player, is outstanding too. But when either it taken out of their element and asked to do something different, both of them lose a little something and lesser horses or players can sometimes make up the difference. I think this is what he was trying to get at when he said that First Defence is a better horse; because he's a little more versatile. I remember having a converasation about Candy Ride a couple of years ago along these same lines. I had told someone that singularly, Candy Ride didn't have the resume to be voted as the champion horse on the dirt or on the turf but when combined, maybe he did have the resume to be voted HOY. Or Lava Man. He may not have been the best dirt horse in 2006 and he may not have been the best grass horse either but maybe he was the best overall horse. Maybe none of this makes sense but I think that's what he was trying to get at, that's he'd take a horse that can do more things above average than one that can do only one thing, even if he's brilliant at that one thing. Think of it another way. Would you rather have one player that can get you 45 points if his jumper is falling but he can't ever put the ball on the floor and get to the basket and he can't play any defense and he doesn't rebound well or pass well..........or would you rather have a guy that may only get you 20 points but he can create his own shot, get you 6-8 rebounds, get you 4-6 assists, and also play some defense?

That might be the worst ever field in a 300k Race. As long as he keeps on running vs garbage like he faced today he will be fine.


Visionaire woulda won by 5.

King Glorious
 

I like the analogy and what you say makes a lot of sense. Personally I prefer a horse that is truly exceptional in a certain way but obviously a horse with real ability that is tractable has advantages.

The problem in this specific comparison, and I know you weren't specifically espousing this belief, is that First Defence has never really done anything of merit and has, in fact, disappointed more often than not when faced with any real test. Maybe the argument works better between Commentator and Divine Park, in that Divine Park will probably never equal the electrifying performance that Commentator delivered in the Whitney but because of his talent and tractability he is more reliable to accomplish more in a broad spectrum.

War Pass is a horse that also comes to mind. There is no real question that he is a superior talent but there was always the question of whether or not he could rate effectively. As of now it appears he can't and in many ways that may have proven his undoing. War Emblem had those same questions going into the Preakness, but he managed to rate, and ended up winning the race.