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Bill Clinton was once overheard laughing at how stupid the American people are. He said "As long as I kept gas prices low, everyone thought everything was fine."

Americans, by and large, can't think for themselves. A recent poll showed that nearly 60% of Americans rated the economy as either "bad" or "below average", while 70% of the same respondants said their economic status was "good" or "better than average."

If the media says the economy is bad, Americans will believe it. It's easier to let the media think for you.

Look around. People are still going to dinner and going on vacations. In spite of high gas prices, people are still driving.

And everyone has a job. In fact, unemployment claims took a dive last month.

But the economy sucks, apparently.

How about you just shut the f.uck up, Limbaugh?

There's no getting through to that tool.

Seeing how I'm the one who got you on this a few days ago by suggesting the economy was a partial reason for a drop in the Preakness handle, I probably need to respond to your debate with some others on here. I appreciate your optimism about the economy, you bring up some valid points, in fact I really hope you're right. The reality is though Justin, things aren't good, especially for the lower middle class. Foreclosures are up and most in this category are living paycheck to paycheck. The worst though is Credit Card debt. The average credit card debt of a 30 something is in the neighborhood of 15,000. This is not good. Gas prices are obviously not the main indicator of the economy, but this is not helping either. We are in a tailspin, I just hope it gets better or we are headed for big trouble.

His last post said it all. I wont have to say anymore....the stuff he is saying is burying him and his views. It's like arguing with a 5th grader.


People are still driving.....too funny....that's the best.

Listen to the evidence people put forth to "prove" that the economy is bad. The housing market, for instance. Housing prices are higher now than they were five years ago. Yet no one suggests that the economy was bad five years ago. So a small percentage of people who never should have owned homes to begin with are going to lose their homes. Big deal. They aren't going to be homeless. They will become what they should have been all along: renters. And at some point in 2008 or 2009, the housing market will level off and prices will slowly start to go up again. Now, if you stupidly purchased a home that you could not afford as an investment in 2005 and hoped to flip it to make a profit, you are probably going to get burned. Does that mean the economy is bad? Only if you are looking to make excuses. If you purchased a home that you COULD afford with the intention of living in it for the duration, you have zero to worry about. This is a fact.

As I have said all along, it's a matter of perspective. Americans have very, very short memories. And they got used to the way things were for the last 10 years: easy money and limited consequences. Compared to the last 10 years, the economy is bad. However, the last 10 years were a joke, and not representative of the way the world, our country, or our economy works. People with an ounce of perspective (or proper education) know this. People who steal their thoughts from the media, or who base their opinions on ridiculous measures like gas prices and the temporary slowdown in the housing market, do not know this. You say the middle class is struggling? Well, maybe that's because too many people run up insane amounts of credit card debt making purchases they can't afford while living a lifestyle that is irresponsible. The problem is it's easier to blame someone else, like the president, than it is to assume responsibility.

Economies on the local, national, and worldwide level, experience booms, busts, and everything in between. Right now, the economy is "fine". It isn't super. It isn't even "better than average" or "good". But it is fine. Sort of like a guy who breaks his leg. The doctor tells his family "He's fine." That doesn't mean he's in perfec health. But there is nothing to worry about.

Yet another recent poll I saw said it best. The majority of Americans think we are in a recession. But it is an indisputable fact that we are NOT in a recession. The numbers simply say otherwise. But since perception is reality in America, this country is in full-on panic mode.

Again, the original comment was "the economy is bad." That is what I was refuting. And I am correct.

Have you two compared savings accounts yet?

Look, he's the one who questioned whether or not I could hold a job.

Justin..Since you use the word "perspective" all the time, I get to ask you this..

How old are you?

32

You guys are assholes.

Kent made big money in the 7th.

Have you ever been through a "bad" economy?

What do savings accounts and holding a job have to do with each other?

No. But I know a lot about economics. And I know that many economists would say that the only really "bad" economies we have truly experienced in America were the Great Depression and a period in the 1970s.

Even the recession of the 1990s was not bad. It was part of the normal economic cycle.

Nothing, and I never mentioned my savings account. I said I would be happy to show him my checking account if he was interested in seeing if I had a job. His clear implication was that I am too big of an idiot to hold a job and earn a living.

What bugs me isn't whether you think the economy is "bad" or not...and relatively speaking...yeah, it is. It's how you dismiss those who are having tough times so casually..

So a small percentage of people who never should have owned homes to begin with are going to lose their homes. Big deal

If you purchased a home that you COULD afford with the intention of living in it for the duration, you have zero to worry about. This is a fact.

Now, if you stupidly purchased a home that you could not afford as an investment in 2005 and hoped to flip it to make a profit, you are probably going to get burned.

You tell me what's wrong with each of these..either morally or economically

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking me. But I'll try to respond.

What EXACTLY is the problem with the housing market? I don't consider a decrease in prices off their insanely high levels of 2005 to be a problem. Again, prices are higher than they were five years ago. And the only people who are going to be HURT by the "housing crisis" are A) people who bought houses they could not afford and had no business owning, B) people who used their homes as ATMs, and spent cash that they didn't really have by refinancing, and C) realtors and mortgage brokers, who also happen to be part of the problem.

Again, if the Jones family loses their home to forclosure and has to move out and rent a home, are they REALLY any worse off than they would have been had they done the responsible thing to being with (rent)? No. Their credit rating will take a hit. But they are hardly ruined.

The media and the democrats have made a campaign slogan out of this, citing the "poor people who are going to lose their homes." Well, 9 times out of 10, those homes never should have been theirs to being with. So I feel no sympathy. AND THEY AREN'T GOING TO BE LIVING IN THE STREET. RENTING ISN'T A BAD THING.

I'm not dismissing anyone. The OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of people who are affected by this temporary downturn in the economy have themselves to blame. Unfortunatly, neither the media nor politicians on either side of the aisle gain anything by holding people accountable.

Not yet...although I am sure he is a billionaire with a playboy centerfold wife. Just like every other loudmouth on the net who wants to compare bank accounts.

His cluelessness is amazing though.

Explains a lot. Although I had you in the 12-16 yr old range.

That was my point. The dope still doesnt get it.

You are so full of sh#t. I made zero reference to how much money you had. I implied that you are truly an idiot and wondered how a dope like yourself could hold a job.

I should know better to argue with some kid who thinks he knows everything.

So the only ones hit by this were the people who took out the loans ?


Go to google and type in "CDO". I agree that a lot of the people who got hurt had zero business getting these huge loans/mortgages...but to say they were the only ones affected is moronic. There are a TON of people who are being affected by whats going on, and had nothing to do with these bad loans. Go do some reading on Auction Rate Securities and whats goin on with them, and how their failures are effecting not only a lot of people...but a lot of businesses.


Your views are beyond distorted...just like the guy you are obviously a big fan of who thank god is a goner in 6 mos. It's kinda funny how his colossal screw ups are gonna hurt his party big time in November.

Yes and then the middle class will really take it in the ass when the capital gain tax is increased and they are forced to sit on their mutual funds for at least 4 years...unless they want to take the hit.


Good times. Both parties are d'awesome.

Hey...there are bad parts about both parties......I just think one of em is worse.

i have exactly zero credit card debt, life is good.
i owe on one house, and one car payment. people need to learn to live within their means, with money left over-rather than maxed out with peter robbed to pay paul. but that's closing the barn door with the horse long gone....

yeah, just d'lectable.

That's a biggy. Mine are very low. I live within my means. The wifey and I both teach, so there is always a steady income with pay increases every year. We will never be rich, but that's fine, I'm hoping a Pick-6 will take care of that, ;) There are times you have to tighten the belt and just say no to certain things.

It's funny how a Kent D. thread turned into Economics 101.

The VAST majority of people who got "bad" or "clever" loans could afford a home, just not the one they got. And while I blame the lenders, the borrowers are the ones at fault for trying to purchase more home than they could afford.

Very, very few responsible people are going to be affected by the housing issue. Will some? Yes. But by and large, it will be greedy people who made a financial decision that they had no business making.

My comment about bank accounts was an overreaction to your childish comment abou whether or not I had a job. I should not have made it, and I regret it. But yes, I have a job and I earn a living. Not that that matters.

I am not a fan of George Bush. But I am a republican.

I also never got personal until you did. You acted in a way that most democrats I know act. When someone disagrees with you and responds with facts, you attack the person instead of the argument. It happens all the time. I live in Washington DC, and I know a ton of people in politics. I have been in a million debates with both democrats and republicans. And there is nothing easier than identifying a person's political persuasion by their style of argumentation. The more personal attacks and emotional retorts one makes, the more likely he is a liberal. Take it to the bank. Go back and compare my arguments to yours, and see if I am right.

The botton line is that the economy is so vast and complicated that if you put ten economists in a room and told them to come up with a definition of the economy, you could probably not get any two of them to agree. But one thing they WOULD agree on is that every economy goes through cycles. And just because some times are better than others does not mean that the bad times equate to a bad ecomony. That's just nonsense, especially when everyone has a job and people are spending money on things like TVs and vacations.

Funny how most conservatives/republicans have their head in the sand. "The war is going great"..."The economy is fine". You people are clueless. I was never pro-republican or pro democrat until the last 5 yrs or so. In the past I just wanted the right guy in the white house. But between Bush being the worst president we have ever seen and borderline criminal...and the religious right wing nutjobs, I have gone to the democratic side.

I dont believe I attacked you at all. In fact....you were the one who started Sh#T with me in the other thread...I hammered you....now you are whining that I started everything. If you cant take criticsim then dont insitgate with others. Pretty simple.

Seriously...go do some research on Auction Rate Securities and explain to me why they went so bad. Hopefully you will learn something and see where the root of the problems came from and how many people who had zero to do with subprime mortgages are getting screwed over.

The good thing is you are only 32 and there is time for you to figure it out.

im a republican ..the war sucks the econ sucks.now is oabama gonna turn it around with "hope"..no.....if he gets in it will be the same shiet..:mad:

I feel like I am arguing with some chick on the rag. Unbelievable. Funny thing is I have some very close friends who are huge republicans....and while we dont agree on much politically....we all agree that the economy is in bad shape and if things continue, it will get really ugly.

Hey...I hope things turn around and the economy skyrockets...regardless of who is in the White House. But unlike Ms. Dew, I am a realist and dont go through life with my eyes closed to things I dont wanna see.


Anyways......I think we have beaten this subject into the ground.

You know what...you might be right. Who knows...but I highly doubt it can get much worse than it is heading now. I think we need someone in there who is gonna make the changes necesary to get back on track. I dont see McCain doin that. If he has his way we will be in Iraq until the year 4000. Kinda sad how this country is pumping a crazy amount of money into a war gone bad when we need the money here.

But hey...if in 4 yrs things get worse I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

It'll be far worse for the working class. His whole deal is rewarding the poor.

they both suck.. were ****ed!!:eek: on a side note brass hat runs today st g.. and kent should get at least two wins if he is not bieng a *****

Seems like there have been a ton of terrible rides lately. . .

This has been going on forever. It's like they decide to take turns going wire-to-wire. Beyond curious.