i just don't understand why eight belles has now become the poster child for horse racing abuse. what about horses in barns with a trainer who cuts the leg off a dead horse? now maybe that guy should be investigated! if there are abuses, you find the ones doing so. if there are problems, fix them. but peta isn't interested in making the sport better, they're interested in not having the sport at all.

The headline of this thread is "This Has Trouble Written All Over It". How could a discussion that involves Dr. Larry Bramlage, Larry Jones, Gary Stevens, and William Rhoden have trouble written all over it? I think it would be much more troubling if they didn't talk about Eight Belles or if they just briefly mentioned the incident. It's much better for them to spend plenty of time on the subject and talk about some of the things that can be done to lessen the chances of something like this happening again. I don't know anything about William Rhoden, but I certainly think that Bramlage, Jones, and Stevens are qualified to give their opinions.

by the same token, vet care and testing is much better. you can always revisit the old days, and see it wasn't the 'good' old days. horses used to run hopped up on cocaine. a fracture back then was found when the horse broke down-no scans like what they've got today.

thing is, we bitch and moan about lack of racing over the span of a horses career, and them retiring at three before they get good. but go back and scan the old, really good horses' records. man o war ran 21 times, , but retired at three-just like secretariat and count fleet, who was sandwiched between the two eras. seattle slew, 17 races over three years-altho i can't imagine another tc winner running at four. it took four years for war admiral to rack up 26 starts, the most he ran in one year was 11-8 as a three year old, which is comparable to some of todays horses. assault averaged seven races per year....

Make NO mistake... Their agenda isn't the abolition of the sport.. Their agenda is SOLELY to use it as a flashpoint to raise money. They couldn't care less about the fate of horses. They don't really care about animals AT ALL. If they did, they would use their organization to help fund the care of abused and neglected animals... BUT THEY DON'T.

In fact, as I said the other day on the show, THEY ARE ROOTING FOR INJURIES TO HORSES TO FURTHER THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS.. They are the depraved parties in this equation.

yeah, you're probably right. a lot of these causes exist solely to make money for those in charge. if there are no more problems, there would be no more need for peta.

I think you guys are making way too big of a deal about PETA. I don't think people make their decisions about whether something is cruel based on what PETA says. Millions of people saw that horse break down. I think people are going to make up their own minds about the incident and about whether horseracing is cruel or not. I don't think there are many people out there who saw the incident and thought one thing, but changed their minds when they heard PETA's opinion.

you'd be surprised rupert. some people have to get their opinion from elsewhere, as it would be too much trouble to form their own after reasonable inquiry and debate.
plenty of lemmings who will use petas talking points to rail against this cruel sport, but they really don't know the sport, just that peta said it's 'bad'. oh, and please send money, join the fight...

I know there are charities out there that don't care about their cause but simply are about lining the pockets of the heads of the charity.

I'm certainly not an expert on PETA and I don't agree with everything they say and do. But I think that lady who is the head of PETA, I believe her name is Ingrid Newkirk, is legitimately extremely concerned with the welfare of animals. If you have any evidence to the contrary, I would love to hear it.

I don't understand why you're so focused on PETA. I'm in the horseracing business and I don't care what PETA says about horseracing. Some of what PETA says is true and some of it is not true. Regardless of what PETA says, I know we have a lot of problems in horseracing that need to be fixed. I don't need PETA to tell me that. I see it first-hand every day.

I'm certainly not mad at PETA. I can't blame them for speaking up, even if some of their crticism is off-base. There certainly is some truth to some of the things they say. Even BTW said, "There is at least a hint of truth in some of what they say."

As I said, I have no anger towards PETA. My anger is at the people in the industry who are dragging their feet and doing everything they can to make sure that nothing changes with medication.

There is a saying to the effect of ... Be careful getting in to a war of words with someone with an endless supply of ink.
The guy from the Times has access to a huge audience and he does not necessarilly have the best interest of the game as his agenda.

I'm not focused on PETA at all. I've barely mentioned them by name on air in the two weeks since they started their nonsense. I was addressing Zig's point above.

But since you brought it up, the fact is that ignoring them specifically is a mistake. In every pro-industry comment in this arena, the point needs to be stressed that there are thousands upon thousands of dedicated racing-related individuals caring for horses daily and whose lives are devoted to ensuring a quality of life for horses on and away from the track.

The other point that you seem to not want to acknowledge at all is the reality that these dire problems you think have the game at death's door are being addressed left and right. What exactly do you think the RMTC is up to? The Welfare and Safety Summit? The ARCI and TRPB Wagering Protocol Working Group? The Grayson-JC Foundation people?

I'm getting really tired of those that love to pile on with the negativity and actively seek to diminish the authentic work being attempted by people like those above. Not everything is going to be 'fixed' in nanoseconds, but to act like nothing is being done AT ALL, BY ANYONE, is ridiculous and an insult to those trying.

excellent points. it's not a head in the sand atmosphere at all.
and i would think most of us hardly give peta a thought, until they start beating the drum and they come to the fore on things like this. it's funny, but other than on here lately, i can't recall a conversation anywhere regarding peta.
i just don't think eight belles is indicative of what is wrong with this sport.

You are right. We are starting to see some changes. The ball is starting to roll. I guess I'm just impatient. I want to see things happen quickly because so much of this stuff is long overdue. The RMTC has certainly done some excellent work. I have been frustrated that so many in the industry have dragged their feet when it comes to implementing the recommendations of the RMTC.

I'll take Rupert and lay the points in this thread.

hey andy got any coolaid....