Ill just be sure to come back to this thread when Harlem Rocker is a non factor in the Preakness.

You're not talking to people that have problems giving out credit.I just think it's very difficult to know who to give the credit to.So,if this horse isn't getting the credit you'd like to see,then it's because a lot of us have no idea how good he is.I can't say that another trainer would have got him to run this well.I can't say he is doing this on his own.I don't know.If you want to see a horse get full props then people need to be pretty sure he is doing it all on his own. Many people have doubts about that.They are skeptical of it.This is the price someone pays when they have multi suspensions for breaking the rules.Nobody knows how good his horse actually is.Do I know how good Benny the Bull,Kip Deville,and Big Brown really are? No,sorry, I don't know that.Given these 3 horses,would any other trainer have the country's best turf miler,sprinter,and 3 year old? Would Diamond Stripes have had that extra reserve energy to come back(after being easily passed in the stretch) and win the Godoplhin Mile?Would another trainer been able to get Big Brown to win with the 20th post in the Derby,and the 12 post at Gulfstream? If your answer is yes,then give Big Brown the credit.If your like many here(with doubts about it,)then we honestly don't have any idea how much credit to give the horse.You're asking us to give credit,and we don't know where it goes.

As would I. I know Casse shipped him back to Toronto, and mentioned possibly trying one of the big summer stakes (Haskell or Travers), although with only 2 races this year, he would seem fit to try the Preakness if they wanted.

I'd also like to see Ready's Echo, but that's probably unlikely. Pletcher mentioned on At the Races a few weeks ago that they may try him in the Peter Pan.

You're way off, buddy. . .

And you never really explained how Harlem Rocker and Court Vision have anything in common. . .

Well at least he didn't compare Harlem Rocker to Yankee Bravo.

anyone that hyped Court Vision was immediately pounded by others that thought he was overrated. the same for Smooth Air, TomCito, monba and the rest of the cast. there were no universally hyped horses here.

also, the only other solid performance that I've seen this year, other than from Big Brown, was Harlem Rocker. I don't know that he's as good as Big Brown, perhaps not at this point. But I do know that he will offer more resistance than those that showed up on Saturday.

how many times has harlem rocker gone two turns?

How many times did Bernardini go two turns before the '06 Preakness?

I think this would really depend on Stronach's national patriotism. The Canadian dollar is equal to the U.S dollar, their triple crown is certainly worth some prestige and I think there is a monetary bonus to boot. If he does go in and wins the Plate Trial, I think it is almost assured he will go to the Plate and it might be the Travers or Haskell that he reappears here again.

Yeah like the Year Fu Peg was looking so good going into the Preakness then along came Red Bullet then the rest is history.

Ummmmm No.......Obviously you have never heard of The Canada Triangle.

Actually I think the Canadian dollar is worth slightly less than the U.S. dollar. But I agree, I think if he won the Plate Trial he'd go to the Queen's Plate. However, the Preakness would fit in just as well schedule wise as the Trial, and he could then go to the Queen's Plate. The question is, has he raced on synthetics? If he hasn't, and I don't think he has, maybe part of the Plate Trial would to be try him on synthetics first. Also, Canada does have the rule that you have to race twice, I believe, in the country to be considered for a Sovereign Award. I don't believe this would be an issue for Harlem Rocker, because I think if he did well in the Queen's Plate (and maybe even if not) he'd go on to the Prince of Wales which would give him two starts, but any successful run in Canada would enhance his chances at a championship.

This is Bernardini?
We are truly reaching.

Not that I'd consider him a major contender, but does anyone know whether or not that Godolphin colt that was a close 2nd in the Lafayette (Hatta Fort or something like that) is pointing to the Preakness? Not sure if he's even a Triple Crown nominee.

Does he have to be Bernardini to make the comparison?

And he might be. . .

He better be really good to beat Big Brown.
If the horse's feet stay in good shape there
is no reason to think he still has big upside.

He might be...
I'll bet his not.

Its an extremely convenient comparison.
Grasping.

The track is muddy at Pimlico and we may
have a brand new type of race. If we want
Big Brown to get beat so badly.

What? What evidence makes you say that it's a reach? He probably isn't as good, but he's done just as much through May 6 as Bernardini had done.

big brown will be runnin in belmont for the tc
 

i'm not a big fan of big brown but his last 2 races he hasn't even had to run hard, so i'm doubtin any horse is gonna run past big brown without him turnin it on and shartin all over their face and destroying their confidence, your best bet is to key him on top and try to hit the tri, and if available, the super, be weiry of el gato malo

Because Bernardini has already proven himself.
We already know what he did at and after the
Preakness.

:confused:

Great point. Bernardini won a bunch of Grade I's after the Derby, and Harlem Rocker hasn't. I agree.

You insinuated that it was some major drawback that Harlem Rocker hadn't gone two turns. Well, neither had Bernardini. What Bernardini did in the Preakness and after is irrelevant, because Harlem Rocker hasn't had a chance to do any of those things.

All I am saying is Bernardini is a very special case
and the implied comparison is not the greatest. But..

If Harlem Rocker goes on to win the Preakness,
JIm Dandy, Travers, Jockey Club Gold by significant margins,
and then loses while battling on the front end for
much of the race and getting passed by a horse as good
as Invasor in the BCC. That would be cool.

And even though I am not into breeding, Bernadini
was expected to do a lot based on his background,
and he did.

You appear to be the one making assumptions and putting words in other people's mouths.
Your words make you look uninformed and presumptuous.

He's listed among the probables for the Peter Pan, according to DRF.

Actually Bernardini wasn't undefeated going into the Preakness. Harlem Rocker is undefeated. I still think they likely will skip the race but Stronach does own Pimlico if I am correct and Harlem Rocker could still go to the Queens Plate.

as long as he is healthy , i think he is a lock. this is from someone that did not like him saturday. so far the preakness field looks even worse. the belmont will be his challange, its usually the down fall of the triple crown hopefuls.

Check out your local Maryland Trainer... and yes I had that exacta ...a few times !!!!

Maiden voyage yes.
Bernardini had big expectations put on him
mainly because he had two very impressive
races before the Preakness, but it was mainly his breeding imo.
And I think it is probable (although impossible
to say) that he would have beaten a ready (no breakthru)
Barbaro.

Just think its a bit much of a step for Rocker
and a reach. Especially since we have not seen
the best out of Big Brown. Who the heck knows.
Maybe he stays really sore for two weeks. Or the feet.

Bernardini through three starts: fourth at six furlongs (68 Beyer), WON at a one-turn mile (90 Beyer), WON one-turn mile Withers (104 Beyer).

Harlem Rocker through three starts: WON at seven furlongs (81 Beyer), WON at a one-turn mile (97 Beyer), WON one-turn mile Withers (106 Beyer).

Yeah, a real reach. If anything, Harlem Rocker has been faster thus far than Bernardini had been. Not saying he'll turn out to be better or even as good, but your saying it's a reach seems unfounded, and is probably clouded by memories of Bernardini dominating most of the rest of the year.

Personally I liked Bernardini's race before the Preakness more.
But if the Beyers are the final say than so be it. Bernardini was
clearly getting better, and was fullfilling breeding expectations.
I remember it well because I did not like him for this very reason.

I dont remember distance limitations highly discussed.

Harlem Rocker. I have seen some mention. But if you want
a horse with a high consistent cruising speed for a mile to tire
Brown that might work.

So.. Your point is that Bernardini had more hype, so therefore it's a reach?

I'll say this one more time: He probably isn't Bernardini, but based on what he's done, there's nothing that comes even close to saying that definitively.

Yes he had more hype.
Because he was improving so rapidly and fullfilling
breeding expectations. So for me, its a reach.

And I will say I again I will bet he does not do
what Bernadini does in the Preakness, and after.
A pretty easy thing for me to say and the opposite of making a
bold statement.

Its nice remembering how much I did not like this
high brow horse and then he did nothing but impress
me. Bernardini's BCC was a really good try.

Well, we agree there. I laugh whenever I see somebody bash his run in the BCC.

Need another like that.
Makes me long for Invasor, Bernardini, Curlin matchup; that would be great.
On the dirt.

as i recall he made blue grass cat cry....:(

I think they would be crazy to skip the Preakness. It is a much better test than the Plate Trial and it serves the same purpose as a prep. The fact is he might win it. They would be kicking themselves if he turns out to be a great horse and Big Brown retires right after the triple crown.

Run them in the big races when they are peaking. And this horse is definitely moving forward.

brisnet has big browe as 5th best early pace and 5th best late pace in his last race is this possible?