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-   -   Doubling the DWC to 12 million, WOW!!! (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21289)

SniperSB23 04-01-2008 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
You can look at the other side, where he is pumping tons of money into the American industry by buying those horses, assuming the people that are selling, are putting that money back into the industry. It isn't like he is charging ridiculous amounts of money for his stallions either, they are all priced at the right level.

I to would love to see some of these horses continue to race, but the very fact that YEARLINGS sell for a million dollars at the sales prevents that, there is just too much money in the breeding side. WHEN THAT evens out, meaning when racing = breeding, then you will have an even industry.

All this industry is doing, is what every other industry in America is doing, consolidating....
They are creating a bubble economy Scav. The yearlings are selling for a million dollars to a lot of people hoping to be able to sell them to Shiekh Mo for $10 million off a maiden win. They aren't worth that million without the possibility of selling them to Shiekh Mo. A lot of people think that Shiekh Mo stopping spending money in America would be a disaster because the bubble would pop. And yeah, a lot of people in the industry that are thriving off that bubble would take a hit. In the long run though it might be the best thing for the sport for that breeding bubble to burst.

Scav 04-01-2008 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperSB23
They are creating a bubble economy Scav. The yearlings are selling for a million dollars to a lot of people hoping to be able to sell them to Shiekh Mo for $10 million off a maiden win. They aren't worth that million without the possibility of selling them to Shiekh Mo. A lot of people think that Shiekh Mo stopping spending money in America would be a disaster because the bubble would pop. And yeah, a lot of people in the industry that are thriving off that bubble would take a hit. In the long run though it might be the best thing for the sport for that breeding bubble to burst.
I couldn't agree with you more. But it is NO DIFFERENT then something like the housing economy in the US.

SniperSB23 04-01-2008 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
I couldn't agree with you more. But it is NO DIFFERENT then something like the housing economy in the US.
The big difference is that the entire bubble is being created in large part by one person.

Scav 04-01-2008 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
With what Godolphin and others are doing, how can it ever even out?
Money eventually runs out, it always does, you can NEVER have enough of it, even this guy.

It is no different then say the Beer Industry. Right now in one of my final classes, we have to do a strategic audit on a company, the teacher picked the beer industry. The industry as a whole has 4 major players, and then a bunch of fringe players. It is exactly what is going on here. You have 4 major owners, some people that are trying to get to that level, and then you have the fringe players, that take what they can get.

Scav 04-01-2008 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperSB23
The big difference is that the entire bubble is being created in large part by one person.
There are 4 people creating that bubble.

I don't want it to look like I am defending this guy, because personally, I can care less what goes on over there, although it does look like a cool place to visit.

I just think that people are missing the big picture, what the industry as a whole is doing.

SniperSB23 04-01-2008 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
There are 4 people creating that bubble.

I don't want it to look like I am defending this guy, because personally, I can care less what goes on over there, although it does look like a cool place to visit.

I just think that people are missing the big picture, what the industry as a whole is doing.
Take the one with the limitless resources out of the picture and the spending by the other three drops dramatically. I think you are underestimating just how much money this guy has and how much the economy of Dubai is making him each year. The money won't run out, he gets virtually none of it from oil anymore so won't even be impacted if we somehow reduced our dependance on oil.

Scav 04-01-2008 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperSB23
Take the one with the limitless resources out of the picture and the spending by the other three drops dramatically. I think you are underestimating just how much money this guy has and how much the economy of Dubai is making him each year. The money won't run out, he gets virtually none of it from oil anymore so won't even be impacted if we somehow reduced our dependance on oil.
Those three players could easily get together and say you know what ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, but they won't do it because they also have 'a war chest'.

Money is no object to these people, and those people eventually get smoked. And trust me, when you are losing 200 million a year on bad investments, while a drop in the bucket for some, you still don't have 200 million, even if it is just a bathroom to these people...

SniperSB23 04-01-2008 09:44 AM
Sheikh Mo's net worth is $14 billion. He spends $50 million on a horse and it is the equivalent of someone with a net worth of $100,000 spending $357 on a horse. So Shiekh Mo can buy a $50 million stallion easier than I can buy a share in Sumwonlovesyou.

GBBob 04-01-2008 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperSB23
Take the one with the limitless resources out of the picture and the spending by the other three drops dramatically. I think you are underestimating just how much money this guy has and how much the economy of Dubai is making him each year. The money won't run out, he gets virtually none of it from oil anymore so won't even be impacted if we somehow reduced our dependance on oil.
You're right...I understand Scav's analogy, and Team Valor may equal Bud, etc, but Sheik Mo is on an entirely different level than ANY of the other players. He is DRIVEN by his thinking that his people are the rightful heirs and owners of thoroughbreds in general and horse racing in particular. He can rationalize anything by this philosophy. He isn't driven to win this race, or own that horse, he wants to bring the breed and the sport back to where he feels it rightfully belongs. It's almost religous in nature and common sense can't compete with that. Sure, there are some ancillary "good" things and charitable things along the way, and Eurpopean racing benefits as does American on a certain scale. But to say he's just a rich dude buying horses underestimates his end game, IMO.

Scav 04-01-2008 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperSB23
Sheikh Mo's net worth is $14 billion. He spends $50 million on a horse and it is the equivalent of someone with a net worth of $100,000 spending $357 on a horse. So Shiekh Mo can buy a $50 million stallion easier than I can buy a share in Sumwonlovesyou.
I agree with this. But the point to made that the BREEDING INDUSTRY has caused this. Not just these four jerkoffs

You have a 50k stallion making TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR(400 mares) if he is going to the south hemisphere, how can ANYONE pass that opportunity up with any horse they have. you aint making 20 million with a horse on the race track. ****, a 10k stallion is making TWO MILLION DOLLARS in a year....

UNTIL the economies of scale EVEN OUT between racing/breeding, this **** aint gonna change people

SniperSB23 04-01-2008 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
I agree with this. But the point to made that the BREEDING INDUSTRY has caused this. Not just these four jerkoffs

You have a 50k stallion making TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR(400 mares) if he is going to the south hemisphere, how can ANYONE pass that opportunity up with any horse they have. you aint making 20 million with a horse on the race track. ****, a 10k stallion is making TWO MILLION DOLLARS in a year....

UNTIL the economies of scale EVEN OUT between racing/breeding, this **** aint gonna change people
As much as we'd like to believe that there will be some magical source of money that comes in and boosts the purses it just isn't going to happen. The only way the racing/breeding scale evens out is if the breeding bubble bursts. That won't happen until Shiekh Mo decides to stop spending money in the US. He has the finances to singlehandedly keep the bubble afloat and is getting some help from the previously mentioned other three groups.

Scav 04-01-2008 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperSB23
As much as we'd like to believe that there will be some magical source of money that comes in and boosts the purses it just isn't going to happen. The only way the racing/breeding scale evens out is if the breeding bubble bursts. That won't happen until Shiekh Mo decides to stop spending money in the US. He has the finances to singlehandedly keep the bubble afloat and is getting some help from the previously mentioned other three groups.
I would really have to study the industry to come up with some ideas, but I can tell you right now, one of them would be to continue the consolidation from all sides. Just by looking at it, this industry wastes SO MUCH MONEY. Look at the ADW landscape, at the most, you need 2 of them, so there isn't a monopoly, but you have 4 majors, plus some fringe. These companies run at RAZOR thin margins, now if they consolidated, to two companies, maybe Twin Spires and TVG, margins would increase, thus you can be more competitive.

Look at these BS tracks that are closing and how tracks have to be pulled out by slots. Magna/Churchill really have the RIGHT IDEA in having all these tracks under an organization but the problem is that Magna has a bunch of buffoons in the organization and they get rid of people that demand they are heard.

There are too many tenacles to this industry, and tenacles don't usually live long.

SniperSB23 04-01-2008 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
I would really have to study the industry to come up with some ideas, but I can tell you right now, one of them would be to continue the consolidation from all sides. Just by looking at it, this industry wastes SO MUCH MONEY. Look at the ADW landscape, at the most, you need 2 of them, so there isn't a monopoly, but you have 4 majors, plus some fringe. These companies run at RAZOR thin margins, now if they consolidated, to two companies, maybe Twin Spires and TVG, margins would increase, thus you can be more competitive.

Look at these BS tracks that are closing and how tracks have to be pulled out by slots. Magna/Churchill really have the RIGHT IDEA in having all these tracks under an organization but the problem is that Magna has a bunch of buffoons in the organization and they get rid of people that demand they are heard.

There are too many tenacles to this industry, and tenacles don't usually live long.
Well if you wanted to make me the czar of racing I'd just limit the stallion books by age. If you stood a 3yo his book would be limited to 20 mares. If you stood a 4yo his book would be limited to 60 mares. A 5yo could cover 100 and then 6yos and up would be unlimited. Would provide less incentive to retire a sound horse early.

brianwspencer 04-01-2008 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmorioles
That is what I thought. You definitely can't get in the race as a 3yo in Gallop Racer.
Which is incredibly frustrating when I have one that I'm pretty sure could win it.

Scav 04-01-2008 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperSB23
Well if you wanted to make me the czar of racing I'd just limit the stallion books by age. If you stood a 3yo his book would be limited to 20 mares. If you stood a 4yo his book would be limited to 60 mares. A 5yo could cover 100 and then 6yos and up would be unlimited. Would provide less incentive to retire a sound horse early.
a great idea, but will never happen, until horse racing is run like the NFL, and the breeding industry is run like college football.

These morons can't even get medication rules to be the same

Travis Stone 04-01-2008 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
It is no different then say the Beer Industry. Right now in one of my final classes, we have to do a strategic audit on a company, the teacher picked the beer industry. The industry as a whole has 4 major players, and then a bunch of fringe players. It is exactly what is going on here. You have 4 major owners, some people that are trying to get to that level, and then you have the fringe players, that take what they can get.
I understand where you're going with this, and it was brought up prior, but the top four major players in the beer market don't have unlimited pockets, or charge ridiculously low prices, to eliminte the others. They still, by large, keep the market competitive.

Scav 04-01-2008 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Stone
I understand where you're going with this, and it was brought up prior, but the top four major players in the beer market don't have unlimited pockets, or charge ridiculously low prices, to eliminte the others. They still, by large, keep the market competitive.
They constantly buy up smaller breweries, or they essentially force them into a distributation agreement (such as a company like RedHook, which is who I am doing the audit on)

It has been either merge upon merge or just getting consolidated into one of the largers.

I don't have their 10k's handy, and with it being a highly regulated industry, their piss away alot of money on regulators and **** like that, but they aint struggling, their pockets/power, is pretty large

GBBob 04-01-2008 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
They constantly buy up smaller breweries, or they essentially force them into a distributation agreement (such as a company like RedHook, which is who I am doing the audit on)

It has been either merge upon merge or just getting consolidated into one of the largers.

I don't have their 10k's handy, and with it being a highly regulated industry, their piss away alot of money on regulators and **** like that, but they aint struggling, their pockets/power, is pretty large
But that still isn't comparable to Godolphin and racing. Miller and Bud battle for exclusivity at sporting events. You think if Sheik Mo wanted his beer ( I know..bad analogy) at the UC, he wouldn't just quadruple the highest offer from Miller or Bud and we'll all be drinking Mo's Brew? No one else is capable of that in the beer industry, let alone the horse biz. I don't think you have an appreciation for exactly how much money he does have.

Scav 04-01-2008 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBBob
But that still isn't comparable to Godolphin and racing. Miller and Bud battle for exclusivity at sporting events. You think if Sheik Mo wanted his beer ( I know..bad analogy) at the UC, he wouldn't just quadruple the highest offer from Miller or Bud and we'll all be drinking Mo's Brew? No one else is capable of that in the beer industry, let alone the horse biz. I don't think you have an appreciation for exactly how much money he does have.
I probably don't, never really thought on that scale, but some are stating that he is destroying the industry, when in fact, it is the industry that is destroying itself and a few select helping move forward with the destruction, he is the head kingpin in the destruction, but he is doing more for horse racing then the others are, at least from what I can tell. It is very lopsided as far as where the money comes from.

Look, it is a bad cycle, any time you have uneven power, it leads to conversations like this, both hatred and love, opinions from both sides, with essentially no right or wrong, no solution or plan

Sooner or later, it will even out, 10 years ago, he wasn't in the American industry, who is to say that in 10 years he will be around....

GBBob 04-01-2008 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
I probably don't, never really thought on that scale, but some are stating that he is destroying the industry, when in fact, it is the industry that is destroying itself and a few select helping move forward with the destruction, he is the head kingpin in the destruction, but he is doing more for horse racing then the others are, at least from what I can tell. It is very lopsided as far as where the money comes from.

Look, it is a bad cycle, any time you have uneven power, it leads to conversations like this, both hatred and love, opinions from both sides, with essentially no right or wrong, no solution or plan

Sooner or later, it will even out, 10 years ago, he wasn't in the American industry, who is to say that in 10 years he will be around....
That is so true...We can't control what Godolphin does, but we sure are doing a lousy job with the things we can control

brockguy 04-01-2008 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
Jim, and Gioia too..

While I appreciate your zeal for the DWC and enjoyment of International racing, perpetuating the notion that Sh. Mo in particular is doing good things for racing is utterly ridiculous. He's single-handedly destroying the game by disturbing the sport's competitive balance and effectively trying to simply buy control of it. Invests in breeding? He's not investing, he's maniacally trying to buy ALL the breeding. And of course there will never be a decent 3yo that sees a handicap season as long as Darley continues in their current fashion.

He's also created the disgusting nouveau scenario of the instant purchase of any young horse, or even any decent looking older horse, which will completely ruin the game for fans. Thanks to Mo, you can look forward to a 'Rollerball' style corporate game shortly where Darley, Godolphin, IEAH and Team Valor basically have bought any decent horse. There will be a few holdouts that don't need the money, but most operations or owners will be compelled to sell.

There is in fact a rumor from credible sources that Darley approached IEAH/Pompa Friday night with a $30 million offer for Big Brown. IEAH has a huge war chest and would rather campaign forward at this point, but you can see what you're dealing with. And of course IEAH themselves threw $2MM at Pompa for 75% of Big Brown off the maiden win last summer...

It's not 'sporting', as Sh. Mo's shills love to claim, just as it wasn't sporting to retire Bernadini. And $12MM for a single race is of course just obscene and garish and typical of the way he operates believing that throwing money at everything assures some kind of 'class'. It's actually embarrassing. What pleasure he can take when whichever American-bred juvenile he bought smashes the career earnings record in his 7th career start with $11,000,000 accrued from the World Cup win on the heels of his wins in the previous year's UAE Derby and 3 stages of Mahktoum Challenges...

Steve,

Id like to believe that last years insane spending by the Sheikh was an anomaly and that seeing his Darley stud so far behind main rivals Coolmore, wanted to rectify that and wanted to do it quickly, hence the purchases of Street Sense, Hard Spun, Authorised, Manduro, Admire Moon etc etc..

From the Guardian article below, he's spent roughly one billion pounds (>1Billion Dollars) on Bloodstock in the past year. I just cant for the life of me see that he can continue this aggressive tactic for more than another year.

Looking at it over here, The Sheikh basically owns the top 4 prospects for the 2000 Guineas - New Approach, Ravens Pass, Ibn Kaldoun and Faat Company. They are all splendid stallion prospects but all else things being equal, they are all successful, i cant see them all retiring to stud...

I was just looking back at a thread i started a while back on the top 10 Godolphin horses ever, it is interesting to note that by my estimate 8 of those wouldnt be there if they had retired at 3. In the late 90s early 00's they were great for racing their top older horses through into their 4th 5th a 6th years. But I suppose therein lies the problem. Very few breeders want slowly maturing types that only really became top class as a 4 or 5 year old.

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/horserac...269381,00.html

SniperSB23 04-01-2008 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brockguy
Id like to believe that last years insane spending by the Sheikh was an anomaly and that seeing his Darley stud so far behind main rivals Coolmore, wanted to rectify that and wanted to do it quickly, hence the purchases of Street Sense, Hard Spun, Authorised, Manduro, Admire Moon etc etc.
Don't know if you saw but they already scooped up the stud rights to Pyro which coupled with the attempt to get the stud rights to Big Brown doesn't exactly give the impression that last year was a one year anomaly.

brockguy 04-01-2008 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperSB23
Don't know if you saw but they already scooped up the stud rights to Pyro which coupled with the attempt to get the stud rights to Big Brown doesn't exactly give the impression that last year was a one year anomaly.

yeah i heard about the purchase of pyro and on this thread re: big brown.. I still think it will take some effort to match last years buying spree though..

Just thinking about this further. Darley really want to be where Coolmore have been over the past number of years.

For years Coolmore were constantly criticised for retiring their horses at the end of their 3 year old career. As Coolmore's quality of stallion increased, it reached a level where it was so good, that even with champions that they had, it was in their interest to race on with them. It has worked in their favour with Dylan Thomas and High Chapparal 2 in particular that benefited from. From a breeding perspective I believe that Darley are where Coolmore were at the end of the 90s, but it will have to get to a stage where it is in their interest to race their horses past 3. With the amount of money Darley have invested though, they could reach that stage sooner rather than later..

Linny 04-01-2008 01:45 PM
Everything that Godolphin ran last Sat was "older" including Literato and Creachadoir, both nice horses. I am not sure why they buy US horses and retire them while going on with Euros they buy. Maybe it's because there are more opportunities to stick it to Coolmore while running on grass-HK, Singapore, Australia etc

I don't think that early retirements are "sporting" and agree that they are bad for the game. What I said was "sporting" was putting up $22m for one day of racing, plus bearing the cost of shipping horses and transporting of human connections all over the globe to attend. Factor in payrolls and maintainance etc how much did Saturday cost? Probably 3 or 4 times what a BC costs before worrying about purses. Oh yeah, and BC screws up everything they touch. I wouldn't trust them to ship my luggage, much less my horse! DWC staff moved horses and humans through Dubai last week efficiently. I've spoken to several who were there and other than delays because of construction, things went beautifully.

I see no way to stop Sh. Mo from buying what he wants, other than for owners of horses he wants to say "no." Mrs. Valando did, IEAH did. It can happen. The man is a walking money pit, and most of it comes from real estate, NOT OIL. The price per gallon has little influence on him. His money however is very welcome through the industry.
The breeder with a nice yearling, the pinhooker with a nice 2yo, the owner of a recent maiden winner- they WANT to hear that phone call come in! It is their livelihood. That call can mean a life changing moment. As FANS and/or handicappers, we are not part of this game. While our money fuels it, we're in it but NOT OF IT. Just as the main office of the Yankees doesn't ask the bleacher creatures their opinions on trades, the horseplayers are not a factor in the decision to sell horses.

Coach Pants 04-01-2008 01:48 PM
That post is just disgusting.

ArlJim78 04-01-2008 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
Jim, and Gioia too..

While I appreciate your zeal for the DWC and enjoyment of International racing, perpetuating the notion that Sh. Mo in particular is doing good things for racing is utterly ridiculous. He's single-handedly destroying the game by disturbing the sport's competitive balance and effectively trying to simply buy control of it. ...
Kinda stifling in here on this subject, if you don’t toe the line and fall in with the crowd on this issue. You either must subscribe to the idea that Sheik Mo is single-handedly destroying the game, or you’re called out by the host as perpetuating “utterly ridiculous” ideas. Given the number of truly ridiculous ideas put forth on here that is truly an ignoble honor.

I not a shill and don’t agree with everything that is done by Sheik Mo and associates, but some of the arguments put forth against him seem like a stretch and somewhat hypocritical.

The Indomitable DrugS 04-01-2008 02:51 PM
If he brings Happy Boy to America I might go MMSC for a day or three and break out pom poms.

If he decides he wants to burry him in Europe on turf though .... that will be reason # 263,845 to hate them.

brockguy 04-01-2008 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
If he brings Happy Boy to America I might go MMSC for a day or three and break out pom poms.

If he decides he wants to burry him in Europe on turf though .... that will be reason # 263,845 to hate them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbYyBKzBTo0 to see Happy Boy (video quality not super) Surely they arent that stupid to go the Asiatic Boy route with this horse..

The Indomitable DrugS 04-01-2008 03:06 PM
I don't know man...

I fear they are that stupid.

jcs11204 04-01-2008 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmorioles
For $12 million this year, what other great horses would have entered?
grasshopper...commentator....

Indian Charlie 04-01-2008 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcs11204
grasshopper...commentator....
heatseeker, tiago, perfect drift

letswastemoney 04-01-2008 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian Charlie
heatseeker, tiago, perfect drift
perfect drift?

Indian Charlie 04-01-2008 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by letswastemoney
perfect drift?
you'd have to understand the lack of psychology involved.

GenuineRisk 04-03-2008 10:44 AM
I don't think it's fair to blame Sheik Mo (much as I would like to), because no one is forcing people to sell their horses to him, and he's pretty clear about why he's buying them (isn't Pyro continuing to race under his current silks until the end of his career? It's not like the Sheik is buying him to race him). But he offers a ton of money, so can you blame people without that much money for selling? We can complain about being unsporting all we want, but the only way anyone will pay any attention to what the fans say is if the gambling ones all stopped gambling to protest early retirement of top horses, and that's just not going to happen, because I think most serious horseplayers are gamblers first and racing fans second (which is perfectly fair). In the end, I think it will have to come down to regulation- the Jockey Club saying a horse can't breed before age 5, or limiting the number of foals (like brian mentioned) but that's not likely to happen either, because fandom is of no importance to this game. It's about the money, from top to bottom, and fans don't bring in any to an owner, breeder, or anyone directly connected to the individual horse. Sucks, to be sure, but it's not fair to blame Sheik Mo for taking advantage of a system already in place.

Linny 04-03-2008 11:16 AM
I cannot see how the JC can instutute a rule limiting books. It's a restraint of trade issue.
I do find it disheartening that so few owners of racehorses care to stand them at stud. I realize that it's very expensive and risky but in many cases you are "out" pretty early with a top prospect. I was no fan of the "Slew Crew" but I sure admire their loyalty to Slew. Similarly, owners like deKwiatkowski were rewarded for their loyalty to Danzig etc. Over the decades those to horses were worth more than even the Sheikh is offering. In most cases (not all) the owners are wealthy enough that absorbing the riskswouldn't be all that hard. If they sell, they have the option to sell only a percentage. They they have Sh. Mo as a partner and he has a pretty strong broodmare band with which to support a stallion that you also own. I have no idea if Sh. Mo would work that way but other operations do.

Kasept 04-03-2008 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlJim78
Kinda stifling in here on this subject, if you don’t toe the line and fall in with the crowd on this issue. You either must subscribe to the idea that Sheik Mo is single-handedly destroying the game, or you’re called out by the host as perpetuating “utterly ridiculous” ideas. Given the number of truly ridiculous ideas put forth on here that is truly an ignoble honor.

I not a shill and don’t agree with everything that is done by Sheik Mo and associates, but some of the arguments put forth against him seem like a stretch and somewhat hypocritical.
AJ

I apologize if I gave too critical and strongly-worded a reply, but I'll argue that it's not 'stifling in here' on this topic. We have a very real problem in North American racing thanks to Sheik Mo, and it very well may be impossible to stem the tide.

I'm curious what arguments put forth against Darley are a stretch or hypocritical? What I found difficult to justify is the notion that Mo deserves an ounce of thanks or iota of recognition for anything that constitutes noble conduct or fair play.

And it isn't that I have no appreciation for the Doobies.. Mo's own brother, (Sh. Hamdam/Shadwell), operates like a gentleman and sportsman with an eye on contributing to the game on a worldwide basis and can be applauded for the way he runs his operation. It's just that we're getting way too much Mo...


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