Speaking of which... Did anyone see that they had a horseshoe toss yesterday at Santa Anita and one of the 5 patrons who got a single toss at a ringer hit it and won a $1,000,000?

Unbelievable...

I was at a Hartford Whalers game once when somebody hit the slap shot through the tiny cutout for $250,000 (or maybe more...).

I think I am getting the Florida Derby Promotional Tee and Hat order if I do I will send you a case of each and you can send them out to your Favorite Dee Tee Posters...DrugS needs a XS

Well somebody has to win, right?

You're not making any sense. . .

Who are the top horses then? Isn't Denis of Cork one of them. . .

My word, I had no idea anybody would be so sensitive about a signature, but I did see that you already changed it to something a BIT less obnoxious so for that, I thank you.

Regarding DoC, I guess I basically agree with you. With his pedigree and past performances, I see no reason that he shouldn't be considered one of the top contenders right now. The bottom line is that it is still pretty wide open at this point. Most of these "top contenders" could still turn out to be either multiple-G1 winners or garbage rather easily.

In the past I haven't had a lot of success tossing horses based on who their exercise rider is. I don't know why that would be, because it seems like such a sound handicapping strategy, but for whatever reason, it just hasn't ever really worked for me.

you are correct, i am wrong... i should have said i like the top 3 a lot then gave my reassons why i like them, its not a key race. and yes i am anxious to learn and i will try to tone it down a little

i dont think he is.... but a lot of ppl here seem to think so

denis of cork has been getting more attention as horses he has beaten have since gone on to win other stakes races. the two horses who finished second and third in the southwest to Denis have now won the rebel and winstar derby. it would be safe to say that the southwest has turned into a key race, since that field has since produced winners.

also, jcs, the owner and trainer of denis of cork have decided to run him only once more pre-derby, as they have done their homework and feel he is set to peak in two races time-which is now the ky derby on his schedule, rather than the arkansas derby.

i realize that....
i just dont like dennis of cork, i know i wont be using him... also feel he has little shot to win the the wood. maybe place but not win

can you explain why you don't like him please?

i really dont know, i actually bet him to win and place last time out and cashed on him... just as far as the derby i dont like him

dont like his running style, dont think he can get the distance, dont like his trainer....

great reasoning. . . what's wrong with his running style? why can't he get the distance? what about his trainer don't you like?

i don't like kent desormeuax much...didn't keep me from betting on (and winning with) loose leaf at 11-1 last june.


also, denis' trainer expects him to regress in the wood, and then run his best in the derby-which is why they're going that route.
it may be a mistake to discount him, since, unlike many others, horses he has defeated have gone on to win their next out.

i'm not sure yet who my derby pick will be, but i will consider all who make the field when the time comes.

It is of course impossible to know which horses will like 10f before they attempt it, but in my opinion, this horse looks like one who is more likely than most to handle that distance. His sire (Harlan's Holiday) was a pretty decent two-turn horse who is apparently turning out to be a better sire than many thought he would be. Harlans Holiday's dam-side pedigree is loaded with stamina (Affirmed, Honest Pleasure, and of course, Princequillo) so there is every reason to think that he could be a decent stamina influence as a sire.
Denis of Cork's dam's sire is KD and BCC winning Unbridled (AWD: 7.8) so there isn't really a reason to dismiss him because of that side either.

As for his running style, I haven't seen anything there which would disqualify him from being a 10f horse either.

He might turn out to simply not be very good, but I don't think it is probable that distance limitations will be his biggest problem.

i prefer a more speedy, tactical type

I haven't tried that strategy,and don't ever intend do.It's just a weird coupling(that's all.)Iggy can't win,and Georgie seems to only want to win.It's actually pretty cool(I guess.)

I know a couple of you guys on here have dennis in the 1st pool at 46-1 but only for $10 :( but oh well would still love to see him win. I like this horse to be honest and i was alwyas a harlan holiday fan. Just always liked the horse as he seemed pretty honest and i like the way the horse moves. Just seems very powerful. I dont know maybe its just a horse crush...

It's called 'fitness'. DoC will have had 4 starts lifetime going into the Derby and the last horse who did that was Exterminator, who had been purchased as a work horse for the better fancied Sun Briar and was substituted at the last minute when SB came up lame. And frankly, the best 3yos were pointed to the Belmont more than the Ky Derby in those days (Man o' War skipped it, using the Preakness for a prep race).

Lacking a foundation of race fitness, even so talented a horse as Curlin couldn't win the Kentucky Derby. Is Denis of Cork so much better than these other horses that he can manage what Curlin couldn't?

No, but I don't see a Street Sense or Hard Spun in this field to worry about and there is no guarantee he'll draw a bad post like Curlin did. Is there any horse that will actually be going into the Derby this year that will be fast, fit, and free of question marks?

Just in case that was not a rhetorical question....Not that I see so far!

Me either. Pyro is the closest but I'm still not convinced he qualifies as fast. At the most that is one horse that fits those qualification which I think it would be completely foolish to dismiss a horse as having no chance cause of lack of conditioning when there is really only at most one fast, fit, question mark free horse out there. Historical rules should all be thrown out the window. It's a new game.

Comparing Denis to Curlin is pretty much a worthless comparison. Different horses, different trips, etc... And Curlin did get 3rd behind two horses that seem to be better than anyone from this crop. Denis has a little 2 year old foundation so I'm not too worried about his fitness level.

Denis is my Derby pick. I'm still sick that we didn't buy him at the Barrett's sale last year.

it's a whole new game. i tossed barbaro, even tho i kept coming back to him, knowing full well he was the best of the bunch--all because of the 'history' of running in the derby so long after a previous race. those things no longer apply, none of the horses these days are particularly seasoned.

Now Denis of Cork is being indirectly compared to Curlin and Barbaro.

This stuff is hilarious.

i'm not comparing the horse, whether directly or indirectly, what i was saying was that you can no longer use what happened 20, 30, 50 or 100 years ago to determine what a horse today can do.

i'm saying use or toss the horse based on the horse, not whether a horse 100 years ago was able to do the same thing.
no horse today runs like in the 'old days', so why should the old days rules still apply? they don't.

I think that's a bunch of horses.hit just because of what's transpired the past two years.

I'll toss Denis of Cork because he's slow, is skipping a prep, has a trainer who might as well be Jerry Brown, and his name makes me want to smash faces.

i don't know that i'd use him either. as to whether it's horseshit, i guess it's in the nose of the beholder.

A horse with races under his belt who has faced adversity will beat a sissy who has been babied for one specific race 10 out of 10 times if the talent is equal.

Denis of Cork is a horrendous bet for the derby. He seems to be the media darling and the bandwagon is bordering on ridiculous as of right now. I actually hope he wins the Wood so he'll end up the favorite the first saturday of May. He has no shot in a 20 horse race.

i thought there must be a problem when they suddenly changed their plans for last wknd...supposedly they feel he'll peak in two races, so they wanted just one more prep.
but then, you see so much 'trainer speak'. it can't be a good thing to change a plan you've had for months, no matter how it's spun.

no horse has really struck me as having much shot, not since war passes inexplicable loss. but hell, someone will win it. trick is figuring out who.


but as far as finding a horse who has faced a lot of adversity, and not been babied...not many fit that bill these days.

He's run three times - and really - where exactly is his good race?

All three of his wins have been moderate when you are talking about horses at that level - and even though this is a very low rated crop right now - Dennis Of Cork is unquestionably being overrated by some people.

I used the horse in the first round of that Road to the Roses thingy - but only because he was facing a moderate field in the Southwest - and was assured to get a fast pace to close into with Sacred Journey running.

Turf War (who is an absolute dog!) went off the post time favorite in his last race.

I'd take Big Brown before I'd take Dennis of Cork - if I had to choose between the the two - at least Big Brown has two genuinely excellent performances. Problem is, one came on turf at age 2, and the other came in a small field off-the-turf event.

I think Denis of Cork is the type that is getting good at the right time. He has a nice style of running for the Derby, and he is in my top five at this point. He is a beautiful moving horse, and he hasn't done anything wrong so far. IMO, distance isn't really a concern with him either when considering his dosage and pedigree. There is a lot to like about him. Plus, I love his sire. Since this crop is so "slow", I think he will do well.

It's too bad Richard Mandella's Harlan's Holiday, Into Mischief, won't make it to the Derby.

if only you really believed that

Where's his good race? (Is that you Andy?) All of his races are good races as they each displayed certain excellent qualities. The wide rally from far back while debuting at the difficult 7f distance at CD.. The determined effort against a slow pace in the comebacker in his two turn debut on a sloppy surface he didn't care for at FG.. The professional, straightforward 'confront and continue' victory in the Southwest versus two next out stakes winners at OP.. By my count, that's three different racetracks with three different kinds of surfaces where Denis of Cork has done what has been required to win.

Addressing the fitness issue, you can rest assured that David Carroll will have this son of Harlan's Holiday, out of an Unbridled mare, ready for 9f April 5, and ready for 10f May 3. Carroll gets on this horse himself, and in his prime as an exercise rider (Easy Goer) was known to be as good as there was.

Those trying to go out of their way to dismiss this horse are passing on what may be one of the few genuine runners of quality out there. I don't like that Carroll has concerns about keeping weight on him, because that brings into question how durable he's going to be, but for now, if you're determined to say anything negative about this colt you're trying too hard.