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-   -   Nice tactics by Indian Blessing's camp (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20738)

sumitas 03-08-2008 08:17 PM
I recall Beautiful Pleasure. Chavez aboard would let her open up like a rank 2 year old. The Go For Wand ( I think that race only had 4 runners), BP must have had a 30 length lead only to be collared by Heritage of Gold.

Cannon Shell 03-08-2008 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
That's pretty funny.

If Indian Blessing rates in hand - instead of being strangled - she'd have gone faster - BUT, so would Proud Spell...the rider would have to use her to keep her in a stalking position.

There is no way Indian Blessing would have a 5 length lead in that race unless she was put to a drive....using her speed takes PS out of her dream trip and forces her to chace and finish.

I know you defended Gomez's strangling rides on Hard Spun in the Belmont and his ride on Dream Rush that day to a lesser extent - who won back to back Grade 1's for Coa in her next two.
Yeah on Dream Rush everybdy was crying about how he went too fast, pretty much the same strategy everyone wants him to do here. I have no love or hate for Gomez. He has rode one horse for me that I can remember, won a stake at Churchill on a horse that was a runoff just like IB.

What makes you think that PS couldnt chase and outfinish IB? IB ran the 3/4's a second faster than the LA Derby which means that PS was roughly 3/5 or 4/5 faster and still ran her down easily.

The Indomitable DrugS 03-08-2008 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcs11204
dont re think anything you are correct and so am i.

gomez strangles to many horses, hard spun in the belmont is classic example... look what he went on to do after the belmont... being by danzig if gomez sends him i dont think curlin or the filly rags to riches would have cought him.
Upon further review - I now agree with the tactics used by Indian Blessing's camp today.

If anything - they didn't rate her hard enough.

jcs11204 03-08-2008 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Yeah on Dream Rush everybdy was crying about how he went too fast, pretty much the same strategy everyone wants him to do here. I have no love or hate for Gomez. He has rode one horse for me that I can remember, won a stake at Churchill on a horse that was a runoff just like IB.

What makes you think that PS couldnt chase and outfinish IB? IB ran the 3/4's a second faster than the LA Derby which means that PS was roughly 3/5 or 4/5 faster and still ran her down easily.


chuckles... i have a question for you. please answer.

how good do you think proud spell can be ? can she win the oaks ? maybe face the boys ? how good can she be in your opinion ?

jcs11204 03-08-2008 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Upon further review - I now agree with the tactics used by Indian Blessing's camp today.

If anything - they didn't rate her hard enough.
you dont mean that

Cannon Shell 03-08-2008 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcs11204
dont re think anything you are correct and so am i.

gomez strangles to many horses, hard spun in the belmont is classic example... look what he went on to do after the belmont... being by danzig if gomez sends him i dont think curlin or the filly rags to riches would have cought him.
Maybe if CC Lopez had ridden him he would have won? Being by Danzig, exacly how many 1 1/4 races did Hard Spun win let alone 1 1/2 races?

jcs11204 03-08-2008 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Maybe if CC Lopez had ridden him he would have won? Being by Danzig, exacly how many 1 1/4 races did Hard Spun win let alone 1 1/2 races?
please answer the question i asked you.

King Glorious 03-08-2008 08:24 PM
Funniest thing that hasn't been mentioned is that IB still ran as fast as Pyro.

Cannon Shell 03-08-2008 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcs11204
chuckles... i have a question for you. please answer.

how good do you think proud spell can be ? can she win the oaks ? maybe face the boys ? how good can she be in your opinion ?
She is a very good filly with tactical speed. She may be the second best filly in the counrty and in her own barn also. There are a lot of tough fillies icluding Pure Clan and the other Jones filly plus Frankels filly by Empire Maker if she ever runs

Cannon Shell 03-08-2008 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcs11204
please answer the question i asked you.
Yes Sir!

jcs11204 03-08-2008 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
She is a very good filly with tactical speed. She may be the second best filly in the counrty and in her own barn also. There are a lot of tough fillies icluding Pure Clan and the other Jones filly plus Frankels filly by Empire Maker if she ever runs
ok thank you...
who is the other jones filly ? the one who won a allowance by 15 ?

Cannon Shell 03-08-2008 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcs11204
ok thank you...
who is the other jones filly ? is she the unbridled filly ?
I cant remember her name but she is the female version of Big Brown except in stakes

King Glorious 03-08-2008 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I cant remember her name but she is the female version of Big Brown except in stakes
Eight Belles is the name. I believe that's it.

The Indomitable DrugS 03-08-2008 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
What makes you think that PS couldnt chase and outfinish IB? IB ran the 3/4's a second faster than the LA Derby which means that PS was roughly 3/5 or 4/5 faster and still ran her down easily.
The La Derby was a slow paced race - albeit not as much of a crawl as Pyro's return race was.

In the days last race, A Larry Jones maiden stalked a 47.60 half (0.57 seconds faster split than Indian Blessing's half) and won.

PS was rating very kindly from a stalking position with a target. It's not so much that Gomez fighting so hard with Indian Blessing hurt her - as it is that it helped Proud Spell.

When Proud Spell shows me that she can chace early, and still finish like that, and run open lengths faster than Pyro in the process, at that point I will believe it.

jcs11204 03-08-2008 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
Eight Belles is the name. I believe that's it.

ok i got it....

personally i think the best 3 yr old filly in america is mushka... but she is another one who wont be running for a long time

Cannon Shell 03-08-2008 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcs11204
ok i got it....

personally i think the best 3 yr old filly in america is mushka... but she is another one who wont be running for a long time
Well I believe the best older horse in America is Hacker Craft but no one believes me.

jcs11204 03-08-2008 08:36 PM
whatever you say chuckles. do you mind if i call you that ?

hoovesupsideyourhead 03-08-2008 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Well I believe the best older horse in America is Hacker Craft but no one believes me.
i subsitute your reality for my own........hacker has done enough ..hank needs to step up his game........

The Indomitable DrugS 03-08-2008 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcs11204
ok i got it....

personally i think the best 3 yr old filly in america is mushka... but she is another one who wont be running for a long time
Yes, she made her reputation by winning a race where she was the only closer in a 9 furlong 2yo race where five speedy rivals were all sent for the lead and the fractions were very fast setting her late run up to make her look much better than she really is.

Cannon Shell 03-08-2008 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
i subsitute your reality for my own........hacker has done enough ..hank needs to step up his game........
Hank is gearing up for a big summer

GPK 03-08-2008 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
She is a very good filly with tactical speed. She may be the second best filly in the counrty and in her own barn also. There are a lot of tough fillies icluding Pure Clan and the other Jones filly plus Frankels filly by Empire Maker if she ever runs

which one is that?

I think Ellis has a pretty good EM baby out of Roll Over Baby. Empire Baby is her name...has yet to start.

Cannon Shell 03-08-2008 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcs11204
whatever you say chuckles. do you mind if i call you that ?
Only if i can call you PG

Cannon Shell 03-08-2008 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPK
which one is that?

I think Ellis has a pretty good EM baby out of Roll Over Baby. Empire Baby is her name...has yet to start.
Country Star?

The Indomitable DrugS 03-08-2008 08:40 PM
yes

GPK 03-08-2008 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Country Star?

out of Rings A Chime.


Im still interested in the other I mentioned too.

Cannon Shell 03-08-2008 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPK
out of Rings A Chime.


Im still interested in the other I mentioned too.
What are you like the new Leon Rassmussen?

GPK 03-08-2008 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
What are you like the new Leon Rassmussen?

no....Im like the old GPK

The Indomitable DrugS 03-08-2008 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
She is a very good filly with tactical speed. She may be the second best filly in the counrty and in her own barn also. There are a lot of tough fillies icluding Pure Clan and the other Jones filly plus Frankels filly by Empire Maker if she ever runs
I'm sure you didn't mean to leave out the mighty Delta Downs filly of Asmussens.

Cannon Shell 03-08-2008 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I'm sure you didn't mean to leave out the mighty Delta Downs filly of Asmussens.
She is by Came Home. Everybody knows they cant run

hoovesupsideyourhead 03-08-2008 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Hank is gearing up for a big summer
nice. from what ive heard hes been around more grade 1 winners than godolphin.. there is a huge buzz on this one.. is he doing the work in the am?

GPK 03-08-2008 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Well I believe the best older horse in America is Hacker Craft but no one believes me.

Im a believer....

Cannon Shell 03-08-2008 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
nice. from what ive heard hes been around more grade 1 winners than godolphin.. there is a huge buzz on this one.. is he doing the work in the am?
9 Derbies, 2 winners. He is in light training.

hoovesupsideyourhead 03-08-2008 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
9 Derbies, 2 winners. He is in light training.
very nice...let me know when hes geared up... he should be 7/5 in the post parade....

sumitas 03-08-2008 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitas
I recall Beautiful Pleasure. Chavez aboard would let her open up like a rank 2 year old. The Go For Wand ( I think that race only had 4 runners), BP must have had a 30 length lead only to be collared by Heritage of Gold.
And that exacta paid $15. Today's was $8.60.

King Glorious 03-08-2008 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitas
I recall Beautiful Pleasure. Chavez aboard would let her open up like a rank 2 year old. The Go For Wand ( I think that race only had 4 runners), BP must have had a 30 length lead only to be collared by Heritage of Gold.

It's worth noting that Beautiful Pleasure also used that style to win a BC Distaff, a Beldame, two Personal Ensign's, a Hempstead, and a Shuvee. An Eclipse for champion older mare was in there too. The rewards outweighed the risks.

sumitas 03-08-2008 09:07 PM
So true. Maybe Chop Chop as the pilot ?

Travis Stone 03-08-2008 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitas
I recall Beautiful Pleasure. Chavez aboard would let her open up like a rank 2 year old. The Go For Wand ( I think that race only had 4 runners), BP must have had a 30 length lead only to be collared by Heritage of Gold.
But don't forget when Chavez rode her "like a rank 2 year old" to victory in the Personal Ensign (with a 5 length lead), the Beldame (with a 5 length lead), the Breeders' Cup Distaff (with a 3 length lead), the Hempstead (with a 7 length lead and the Personal Ensign again (with a 5 length lead).

kentuckyrosesinmay 03-08-2008 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPK
which one is that?

I think Ellis has a pretty good EM baby out of Roll Over Baby. Empire Baby is her name...has yet to start.
Yes he does... She is quite nice. I'm still waiting for another in Ellis's barn to start that could be any kind, but it isn't an Empire Maker.

And Country Star might just be the best filly in the country if she ever gets straight.

Danzig 03-08-2008 10:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Thats BS because 3 year olds at this time of the year improve and catch up to the early maturing horses. Each races is not the same. Maybe her headstrong ways are already catching up to her physically. My arguement is that ANY horse that is a top horse that cant finish after a 48 half mile simply is not that good. The other filly gobbled her up after 7 furlongs. That is a bad sign. I simply dont think the horse is that good. Opening up 5 would have made no difference. There are 2 other races to use as a guage and she ran almost identical fractions for the 1st half mile. If there were a few more horses in there she may have been off the board. As a matter of fact I would not be surprised if she doesn run again for awhile.
yeah, that's true. point taken.

Danzig 03-08-2008 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcs11204
whatever you say chuckles. do you mind if i call you that ?
i do


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