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GBBob 03-05-2008 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut
ok, I'll go along with that. I wouldn't want anyone to confuse him with any limited gubment, liberty minded conservatives.

I know that everyone says we have to dumb it down so the idiot swing voters will go along.

not too many people may know this but it appears that Obama has the same criminal connections that the gov. of il Rod Blogo has. I doubt it would happen but he may have to appear in court.
of the last 4 governors - only former gov. Jim Edgar has managed to stay out of jail.
btw
Jim Edgar is a horse enthusiast. The family are owners.

I'm not sure how you can say that since it has been in the papers the last 6 months and on TV the last week.
Blago is Figure A and is in deep trouble...and deserves every bit of it

pgardn 03-05-2008 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob
I'm not sure how you can say that since it has been in the papers the last 6 months and on TV the last week.
Blago is Figure A and is in deep trouble...and deserves every bit of it

McCain was at a party with a murderer.
There were 1000 thousand other people at the party,
but McCain was present.

pdrift1 03-05-2008 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob
I'm not sure how you can say that since it has been in the papers the last 6 months and on TV the last week.
Blago is Figure A and is in deep trouble...and deserves every bit of it

fill me in here. what crimminal connections is the gov of il caught up in ? curious

GBBob 03-05-2008 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut
ok, I'll go along with that. I wouldn't want anyone to confuse him with any limited gubment, liberty minded conservatives.

I know that everyone says we have to dumb it down so the idiot swing voters will go along.

not too many people may know this but it appears that Obama has the same criminal connections that the gov. of il Rod Blogo has. I doubt it would happen but he may have to appear in court.

of the last 4 governors - only former gov. Jim Edgar has managed to stay out of jail.
btw
Jim Edgar is a horse enthusiast. The family are owners.

Where's Jim Thompson doing time?

GBBob 03-05-2008 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdrift1
fill me in here. what crimminal connections is the gov of il caught up in ? curious

There's a trial that started Monday of a guy named Tony Rezco..google him for the best background, but he's a Syrian ( I think) gazillionaire who is accused of ( and probably guilty of) major influence peddling. There have been piles of papers filed by the Feds against him and there is a "Figure A" who is mentioned pre-dominantly throughout. A Judge last week released that Figure A is the Gov of Illinois, Rod Bladgojavich. So, it's going to get interesting.

pdrift1 03-05-2008 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob
There's a trial that started Monday of a guy named Tony Rezco..google him for the best background, but he's a Syrian ( I think) gazillionaire who is accused of ( and probably guilty of) major influence peddling. There have been piles of papers filed by the Feds against him and there is a "Figure A" who is mentioned pre-dominantly throughout. A Judge last week released that Figure A is the Gov of Illinois, Rod Bladgojavich. So, it's going to get interesting.

k thanks i will have to keep a eye on this .

whodey17 03-05-2008 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdrift1
i guess it was the referring to the dems ideas as a joke and mcains no better and thinking to myself change can be good. we dont know the exact outcome of some of these policies unless they are implemented and put into action. nothing wrongwith trying something new. and i say status quo as to how the country has been run for so long aswe are not in the best of sorts, and improvments can be made in many areas. and some clean up needs to be done .i took it as you thought they are no better then what we have now. but from what we have now we can only go upwards hopefully

There is a difference between change and talking about change. The Hillary health care plan is basically a hidden tax on the young people of this country. It also creates a mandate stating that you have to get healthcare or you will be fined. I think it should be made available to everyone and it is up to the individual to decide if he/she wants it. In order to have true universal health care you have to go to a single payer system. Taxing the rich does no good (which Obama wants). People are rich and can hire accountants to hide their money. So, once again the middle class will be the grunts of the tax system. In order to have a fair tax system, you should go to a national sales tax. This way you get to decide how much you pay into the system. Iraq is a mess but pulling out makes it no better. Not sure what the solution would be, I feel sorry for whoever gets elected when it comes to Iraq. Change and trying new ideas is good as long as they are good ideas and it is for real change as oppossed to change to get elected.

Now, Hillary better watch her words. She is basically saying that Obama is not experienced enough. Well this is going to come back to bite her or Obama. Neither of them has the experience that McCain has. So if Obama isnt fit, then what makes Hillary more fit to be President than McCain?

The economy is in OK shape. NAFTA has played a HUGE role in our economic struggles. We basically have lost our fundamental economic base (manufacturing). America does not create anything anymore....we serve and that is not good. This started in the Clinton Administration. To add to the bad economy, Greenspan messed around with rates too much during his later years. Bernarke is doing the same.

Whoever is the Pres, they are going to have tons to do with little time to do it. But in my opinion, Obama, Hillary and McCain is not what this country needs right now.

GBBob 03-05-2008 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodey17
There is a difference between change and talking about change. The Hillary health care plan is basically a hidden tax on the young people of this country. It also creates a mandate stating that you have to get healthcare or you will be fined. I think it should be made available to everyone and it is up to the individual to decide if he/she wants it. In order to have true universal health care you have to go to a single payer system. Taxing the rich does no good (which Obama wants). People are rich and can hire accountants to hide their money. So, once again the middle class will be the grunts of the tax system. In order to have a fair tax system, you should go to a national sales tax. This way you get to decide how much you pay into the system. Iraq is a mess but pulling out makes it no better. Not sure what the solution would be, I feel sorry for whoever gets elected when it comes to Iraq. Change and trying new ideas is good as long as they are good ideas and it is for real change as oppossed to change to get elected.

Now, Hillary better watch her words. She is basically saying that Obama is not experienced enough. Well this is going to come back to bite her or Obama. Neither of them has the experience that McCain has. So if Obama isnt fit, then what makes Hillary more fit to be President than McCain?

The economy is in OK shape. NAFTA has played a HUGE role in our economic struggles. We basically have lost our fundamental economic base (manufacturing). America does not create anything anymore....we serve and that is not good. This started in the Clinton Administration. To add to the bad economy, Greenspan messed around with rates too much during his later years. Bernarke is doing the same.

Whoever is the Pres, they are going to have tons to do with little time to do it. But in my opinion, Obama, Hillary and McCain is not what this country needs right now.



In all seriousness, who do/did you have in mind?

pdrift1 03-05-2008 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodey17
There is a difference between change and talking about change. The Hillary health care plan is basically a hidden tax on the young people of this country. It also creates a mandate stating that you have to get healthcare or you will be fined. I think it should be made available to everyone and it is up to the individual to decide if he/she wants it. In order to have true universal health care you have to go to a single payer system. Taxing the rich does no good (which Obama wants). People are rich and can hire accountants to hide their money. So, once again the middle class will be the grunts of the tax system. In order to have a fair tax system, you should go to a national sales tax. This way you get to decide how much you pay into the system. Iraq is a mess but pulling out makes it no better. Not sure what the solution would be, I feel sorry for whoever gets elected when it comes to Iraq. Change and trying new ideas is good as long as they are good ideas and it is for real change as oppossed to change to get elected.

Now, Hillary better watch her words. She is basically saying that Obama is not experienced enough. Well this is going to come back to bite her or Obama. Neither of them has the experience that McCain has. So if Obama isnt fit, then what makes Hillary more fit to be President than McCain?

The economy is in OK shape. NAFTA has played a HUGE role in our economic struggles. We basically have lost our fundamental economic base (manufacturing). America does not create anything anymore....we serve and that is not good. This started in the Clinton Administration. To add to the bad economy, Greenspan messed around with rates too much during his later years. Bernarke is doing the same.

Whoever is the Pres, they are going to have tons to do with little time to do it. But in my opinion, Obama, Hillary and McCain is not what this country needs right now.

was just going to ask the same question?

whodey17 03-05-2008 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud
Sez who? And why?

Sad about jobs leaving but really now, do you think those jobs weren't leaving if not for NAFTA?

The jobs that went were going to go.

Just about every economist and enviromentalist out there states that NAFTA is not a good piece of legislation. It (NAFTA) has created child sweat shops, illegal immigration has increased since NAFTA not decreased like they (politicians) thought, it also tries to create a level trading field for Mexico, Canada and U.S, (but why do we want to be on the same playing field as far as trade goes with those countries), it has created horrible enviromental disaster along the Mexico U.S border (Mexico does not have very good enviromental laws), pay has not increased for the workers in Mexico like they thought, jobs have been lost that prob would not have gone overseas....the list is endless as to why this is a bad piece of legislation.

pdrift1 03-05-2008 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodey17
There is a difference between change and talking about change. The Hillary health care plan is basically a hidden tax on the young people of this country. It also creates a mandate stating that you have to get healthcare or you will be fined. I think it should be made available to everyone and it is up to the individual to decide if he/she wants it. In order to have true universal health care you have to go to a single payer system. Taxing the rich does no good (which Obama wants). People are rich and can hire accountants to hide their money. So, once again the middle class will be the grunts of the tax system. In order to have a fair tax system, you should go to a national sales tax. This way you get to decide how much you pay into the system. Iraq is a mess but pulling out makes it no better. Not sure what the solution would be, I feel sorry for whoever gets elected when it comes to Iraq. Change and trying new ideas is good as long as they are good ideas and it is for real change as oppossed to change to get elected.
Now, Hillary better watch her words. She is basically saying that Obama is not experienced enough. Well this is going to come back to bite her or Obama. Neither of them has the experience that McCain has. So if Obama isnt fit, then what makes Hillary more fit to be President than McCain?

The economy is in OK shape. NAFTA has played a HUGE role in our economic struggles. We basically have lost our fundamental economic base (manufacturing). America does not create anything anymore....we serve and that is not good. This started in the Clinton Administration. To add to the bad economy, Greenspan messed around with rates too much during his later years. Bernarke is doing the same.

Whoever is the Pres, they are going to have tons to do with little time to do it. But in my opinion, Obama, Hillary and McCain is not what this country needs right now.

i agree with you here

SCUDSBROTHER 03-05-2008 10:18 PM

For the people who love this national sales tax stuff,how do you keep people from quietly exchanging product for cash(without telling anybody?)

whodey17 03-05-2008 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob
[/b]

In all seriousness, who do/did you have in mind?

I will name three that I think would do a better job than Obama, Clinton or McCain---Biden, Charlie Crist and Chris Dodd.

pgardn 03-05-2008 10:23 PM

two for Ralph Nader.

whodey17 03-05-2008 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
For the people who love this national sales tax stuff,how do you keep people from quietly exchanging product for cash(without telling anybody?)

Scus, I am not understanding your question. Could you expand on it a little...thanks.

pdrift1 03-05-2008 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodey17
There is a difference between change and talking about change. The Hillary health care plan is basically a hidden tax on the young people of this country. It also creates a mandate stating that you have to get healthcare or you will be fined. I think it should be made available to everyone and it is up to the individual to decide if he/she wants it. In order to have true universal health care you have to go to a single payer system. Taxing the rich does no good (which Obama wants). People are rich and can hire accountants to hide their money. So, once again the middle class will be the grunts of the tax system. In order to have a fair tax system, you should go to a national sales tax. This way you get to decide how much you pay into the system. Iraq is a mess but pulling out makes it no better. Not sure what the solution would be, I feel sorry for whoever gets elected when it comes to Iraq. Change and trying new ideas is good as long as they are good ideas and it is for real change as oppossed to change to get elected.

Now, Hillary better watch her words. She is basically saying that Obama is not experienced enough. Well this is going to come back to bite her or Obama. Neither of them has the experience that McCain has. So if Obama isnt fit, then what makes Hillary more fit to be President than McCain?

The economy is in OK shape. NAFTA has played a HUGE role in our economic struggles. We basically have lost our fundamental economic base (manufacturing). America does not create anything anymore....we serve and that is not good. This started in the Clinton Administration. To add to the bad economy, Greenspan messed around with rates too much during his later years. Bernarke is doing the same.

Whoever is the Pres, they are going to have tons to do with little time to do it. But in my opinion, Obama, Hillary and McCain is not what this country needs right now.

here i think its not as dire a situation as you make it out to be. i think people are smart enuff or should be to know that this is a tatical move to gain votes only and deep in her heart she would truley admit he's more then qualified. look at the qualifications of the egghead we have now. all obama has to keep preaching is do you want a lifelong politician and the same backslapping good ol boy type of government ordo you want what out of the three would be considered more of a outsider trying to clear the red tape and stop politics as usual

pdrift1 03-05-2008 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodey17
There is a difference between change and talking about change. The Hillary health care plan is basically a hidden tax on the young people of this country. It also creates a mandate stating that you have to get healthcare or you will be fined. I think it should be made available to everyone and it is up to the individual to decide if he/she wants it. In order to have true universal health care you have to go to a single payer system. Taxing the rich does no good (which Obama wants). People are rich and can hire accountants to hide their money. So, once again the middle class will be the grunts of the tax system. In order to have a fair tax system, you should go to a national sales tax. This way you get to decide how much you pay into the system. Iraq is a mess but pulling out makes it no better. Not sure what the solution would be, I feel sorry for whoever gets elected when it comes to Iraq. Change and trying new ideas is good as long as they are good ideas and it is for real change as oppossed to change to get elected.

Now, Hillary better watch her words. She is basically saying that Obama is not experienced enough. Well this is going to come back to bite her or Obama. Neither of them has the experience that McCain has. So if Obama isnt fit, then what makes Hillary more fit to be President than McCain?

The economy is in OK shape. NAFTA has played a HUGE role in our economic struggles. We basically have lost our fundamental economic base (manufacturing). America does not create anything anymore....we serve and that is not good. This started in the Clinton Administration. To add to the bad economy, Greenspan messed around with rates too much during his later years. Bernarke is doing the same.

Whoever is the Pres, they are going to have tons to do with little time to do it. But in my opinion, Obama, Hillary and McCain is not what this country needs right now.

this is a situation we should have never gotten into to begin with. but to pull out now would be a disaster. but for mcain to say we will stay thier for 100 years is not going to sit well with the voters either

SCUDSBROTHER 03-05-2008 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodey17
Scus, I am not understanding your question. Could you expand on it a little...thanks.

You said: "In order to have a fair tax system, you should go to a national sales tax. "

I say: ...How do you keep somebody from selling something under the table(not charging the sales tax.) For instance,I have a lot of gold jewelry.The government does not know I have it.How is it gunna know if I sell it without taxing it?

pgardn 03-05-2008 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
For instance,I have a lot of gold jewelry.The government does not know I have it.

Oh hell yes they do.
They found it in your left D-cup.
They have cameras in your house.

Remember that time you tried on
that Evening Party dress...? they know.

hope he takes this as a bad joke...

Cannon Shell 03-05-2008 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob
[/b]

In all seriousness, who do/did you have in mind?

I hope that you arent implying that these 3 are the best that we could do? 2 short term senators and a fossil. I think more qualified people want to be CEO of Magna Entertainment than want to be President.

Cannon Shell 03-05-2008 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
For the people who love this national sales tax stuff,how do you keep people from quietly exchanging product for cash(without telling anybody?)

How do states stop it?

The Indomitable DrugS 03-05-2008 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I hope that you arent implying that these 3 are the best that we could do? 2 short term senators and a fossil. I think more qualified people want to be CEO of Magna Entertainment than want to be President.

That had to be what Tie Domi was angling for when he cheated on his wife and seduced Frank's daughter into an affair.

Expierience and qualification are bad things when you're talking about politicans.

To me, the longer they've been around and the more connected they are, the more corrupt they are likely to be.

SCUDSBROTHER 03-06-2008 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
How do states stop it?

They don't.

Cannon Shell 03-06-2008 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
They don't.

So you are telling me that there is some tremendous amount of sales tax dodging going on? We may be on to something. Damn Turks.

Danzig 03-06-2008 06:46 AM

when i did my state taxes, there was a line on there to put estimated sales tax that i hadn't paid--internet purchases and such--so that i could pay it then.

good thing i never buy anything off the internet...:cool:

whodey17 03-06-2008 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
You said: "In order to have a fair tax system, you should go to a national sales tax. "

I say: ...How do you keep somebody from selling something under the table(not charging the sales tax.) For instance,I have a lot of gold jewelry.The government does not know I have it.How is it gunna know if I sell it without taxing it?

There is always going to be those types of transactions. Painters, carpenters, etc etc will work under the table to avoid taxes. People sell things all the time at garage sales and they do not pay a sales tax, farmers sell their goods at a farmers market and you do not pay a sales tax, and people who own businesses will barder with other business owners. You will always have these type of situations, but those are small compared to the big picture. A national sales tax is the only fair tax system to have. I should have said that I am not in favor of such a system, but it is fair.

Danzig 03-06-2008 07:46 AM

a lot of people think it's unfair, as it would tax the poor more harshly then the current system--in which many get rebates/refunds without having paid a federal tax to begin with.
i personally do not want to pay 35% sales tax between state/federal if such a scheme were to be passed. you buy one big ticket item, and you'll have paid more in sales tax for that purchase than you would all year under the current system.

hoovesupsideyourhead 03-06-2008 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
So you are telling me that there is some tremendous amount of sales tax dodging going on? We may be on to something. Damn Turks.

fla no state taxes..:D

GBBob 03-06-2008 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
fla no state taxes..:D

You sure you don't miss living in Cook County hooves? They just raised the Sales Tax here last week to 10.25%!!!

friggin' unreal

hoovesupsideyourhead 03-06-2008 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob
You sure you don't miss living in Cook County hooves? They just raised the Sales Tax here last week to 10.25%!!!

friggin' unreal

yes for the food and friends ill pay..

SCUDSBROTHER 03-06-2008 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
yes for the food and friends ill pay..

and the weather....ice box with a 10% sales tax.

whodey17 03-06-2008 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
a lot of people think it's unfair, as it would tax the poor more harshly then the current system--in which many get rebates/refunds without having paid a federal tax to begin with.
i personally do not want to pay 35% sales tax between state/federal if such a scheme were to be passed. you buy one big ticket item, and you'll have paid more in sales tax for that purchase than you would all year under the current system.

I dont believe that a rebate/refund should be issued. Doesn't make sense to me and it is a waste of money.

National Sales tax is fair because poor people do not buy things, travel or go to events. and they can control their tax situation. I also do not believe in property tax or car tax. One of the problems we have as a country is that no one owns anything anymore. The American dream is a farce. Once you pay for your home or car and you own the title no one should be able to take it from you.

hoovesupsideyourhead 03-06-2008 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodey17
I dont believe that a rebate/refund should be issued. Doesn't make sense to me and it is a waste of money.

National Sales tax is fair because poor people do not buy things, travel or go to events. and they can control their tax situation. I also do not believe in property tax or car tax. One of the problems we have as a country is that no one owns anything anymore. The American dream is a farce. Once you pay for your home or car and you own the title no one should be able to take it from you.

you could move to russia..the national tax will never fly ..why.because the people who make the laws do own things.. you can write your congressman all day and night..guess what .hes loaded too..lol no chance...

Danzig 03-06-2008 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodey17
I dont believe that a rebate/refund should be issued. Doesn't make sense to me and it is a waste of money.

National Sales tax is fair because poor people do not buy things, travel or go to events. and they can control their tax situation. I also do not believe in property tax or car tax. One of the problems we have as a country is that no one owns anything anymore. The American dream is a farce. Once you pay for your home or car and you own the title no one should be able to take it from you.

poor people don't buy things? since when?
and my sales tax here is 10.5%--and arkansas taxes groceries, altho at a lower percentage-but it used to be as high as all the rest of it. i guarantee you, poor people buy groceries. and cars, t.v.s, etc. as far as 'not believing' in a car tax, good luck not paying if a nat'l tax is passed the next time you buy. oh, but i don't believe in that. yeah, you'll have to pay anyway. huckabee the god candidate was gov here in arkansas, and never took the opportunity to do anything about the state of high taxation here in his home state, i doubt he could do anything with the fed taxes--except maybe raise it like he did here. and then there's that tax surplus they passed a few years ago, a temporary added tax to state income tax. then they had a huuuuge surplus after. it was crazy. it too the next gov, a democrat, to lower the grocery tax. and we have personal property, property tax as well. i'd move to louisiana if i didn't think that insurance rates wouldn't nibble at my tax savings!

whodey17 03-06-2008 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
you could move to russia..the national tax will never fly ..why.because the people who make the laws do own things.. you can write your congressman all day and night..guess what .hes loaded too..lol no chance...

Oh I agree. A flat tax will happen before a national sales tax. Neither will happen......

whodey17 03-06-2008 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
poor people don't buy things? since when?
and my sales tax here is 10.5%--and arkansas taxes groceries, altho at a lower percentage-but it used to be as high as all the rest of it. i guarantee you, poor people buy groceries. and cars, t.v.s, etc. as far as 'not believing' in a car tax, good luck not paying if a nat'l tax is passed the next time you buy. oh, but i don't believe in that. yeah, you'll have to pay anyway. huckabee the god candidate was gov here in arkansas, and never took the opportunity to do anything about the state of high taxation here in his home state, i doubt he could do anything with the fed taxes--except maybe raise it like he did here. and then there's that tax surplus they passed a few years ago, a temporary added tax to state income tax. then they had a huuuuge surplus after. it was crazy. it too the next gov, a democrat, to lower the grocery tax. and we have personal property, property tax as well. i'd move to louisiana if i didn't think that insurance rates wouldn't nibble at my tax savings!

Poor people buy things, but wealthier people buy more of things and more high-priced items. I should have said that poor people do not purchase as many things as wealthier people. As far as the car tax--I mean paying for that little sticker each year so your license plates are current. I agree with paying tax on a car if you buy it from a dealer. I also do not believe food should be taxed. We are absolutely taxed to death in this country and it has to stop somewhere and sometime.


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