Golf

i had them on, yes. but i would prefer that i could see them all that day. how would you like it if the first half of the super bowl was on a friday during working hours?

Tennis. The women's NCAA basketball tournament.

but do they have half the players play on friday, and then tiger and a few come out on sunday and show off?

Yes, I see how this analogy is the same.

the NCAA has managed to string out what used to be one day's worth of games over 9 days. It could be worse

tennis finals generally fall on saturday and then sunday, i know as i used to watch.
as for the ncaa women, haven't a clue. i don't even watch mens b'ball....

but it could be better.

but by the same token, those games are usually played during prime time, aren't they? not 1-5 on a weekday afternoon...at least once you get down to the sweet 16, right?

and besides, i'd hate to see the distaff division end up as ignored as womens basketball!!

How can anyone really defend this obscene move by the powers that be at the BC?

The word that keeps coming to mind is deflating - It's deflating to me as a race fan that the people that run what was one of the great days in the sport think this is a smart move.

Personally I have no problem with Friday races though i do understand the people that disagree. I have seen Oaks day turn from a big day to a huge event so Friday events are not impossible. i dont like the shuffling of the races though. I was in favor of adding races but I think they should remain secondary until they have a little history behind them and 'earn' thier way onto the big day. You cant possibly hope to make Friday as big as Sat and as such the traditional races should have been kept intact with Friday being a preview of sorts, especially since many people who travel are already in town. The truth I'm afraid is that this will give them an excuse to raise prices on friday to the level of the Saturday prices which cuts into many peoples budgets. One tip off that the powers that be in racing dont care about current customers is the absense of effort to repeal the unfair withholding rules. Until recently I had never heard a racetrack exec even acknowledge this and it hurts their bottomline too.

I was thinking about New Year's Day Bowl games

but i agree with your other post

i think it's the shuffling of the races, far more than just having added races, that has me the most aggravated. like you said, no history behind some of the races. and why should races that have achieved and DESERVE gr 1 status and have much to do (altho sometimes too much) with the awarding of year-end honors be relegated to being nothing more than a life preserver for races that really have nothing to do with any type of division??
they're trying to surround pseudo championship races with races with history behind them, to somehow grant those newbies some type of legitimacy.

I can understand that. I would think that the feeling behind this is maybe the same as when networks put new shows on the air right after some established hits, in hopes that the audience that watched the hit might stick around and watch the new show. For that reason, I don't think it's that bad an idea. Speaking only for myself, I can tell you that if there was a day with the Dirt Marathon, the F/M Sprint, the Juvenile Turf Fillies and the other new races only, I'd be less likely tune in and watch them alone than I would be if they were on the same card with the Distaff and the F/M Turf.

Hey we watch the garbage that some tracks put out everyday so it is not like we wont watch them anyway. But in keeping friday as a BC expansion day with prices half price with some huge pool pick 6 or some way that bettors are rewarded for playing or going may be easier for people that care to swallow.

Hey, curling is a great sport. Lots of finesse and mind games involved. And good players can come in all shapes and sizes. Like snooker (which gets wall-to-wall afternoon coverage on the BBC). Moreover, like horse racing, it is rooted in history, unlike the bastardization of a great outdoor game like football. (Okay, I am from Minnesota so sports on ice have a special appeal. AND we spent a sabbatical year in Canada where curling is second only to ice hockey among winter sports. For myself, they could lose boxing forever off TV and I would be happy. It is a disgusting excuse for a sport, IMHO. But my dad likes it!)

Have to admit that the 10 years living in Canada made me a Curling fan as well..

Very true.....but I would add that racing her on the " real " BC card would keep her in the headlines, so to speak.

The other problem, that I'm not sure has been mentioned so far, is that instead of the Saturday races being a complete " championship day ", they will be watered down to include the, perhaps fun, but irrelevent BC Turf Sprint, BC Juvenile Turf and BC Marathon. These races were conceived as, essentially, lead-ins to the big day, and now they are part of the main event at the exclusion of others.

As has been well stated here by Chuck, the BC is furthering a mistake that racetracks in general make, in a misguided attempt to attract a new audience that may or may not truly exist, they have spurned the needs and desires of their core and dedicated customers. We need to take care of these people a whole lot better before we should be worried about adding to their numbers.

You can literally hear the conversation in the BCL meeting when, OR EVEN IF, the question came up...

"The existing fans? Are you kidding? They'll watch and bet whenever and wherever we put it and whatever we call it..."

if they feel a need to split the event, why not make a juvenile day and make all those races on friday or make it a saturday- sunday event.
as it stands now instead of Ladies Day call it BC Oaks Day.

I essentially agree. Add the Turf Sprint and Marathon to bookend the card and you have a decent Pick-6 of somewhat related races headlined by two big events.

Far too intelligent a concept.

A couple of random thoughts on the subject....
Handle drives the game..participation of the fan base largely drives the handle.
Fan base falls into several categories... Hardcore, casual, newbie.
Newbies evolve to become Casuals...Casuals evolve to become Hardcore
Increasing the pool of Newbies and expediting the fan evolution process may well be keys to the long term survival of the sport. IMHO promotion, education, and incentive are keys to both bringing in more newbies and expediting fanbase evolution.
Kentucky Oaks day has become a hugh event in Louisville and to some extent with the hardcore fans of the sport...it is not that big with the non-Louisville casual fans of the sport.
Newbies are generally created by attending live racing and to a lesser extent by media coverage of the sport... in either case it is the casual and/or hardcore fan that frequently gets the newbie initially involved.
The Breeders Cup Friday card is not likely to add many new fans to the game...the on track attendance at the host track may improve via more of the Saturday crowd coming out a day earlier,but to a large extent that was happening anyway.
Any increase in Friday handle at non-host track venues will not likely be coming from new fans.

I hope not but...........................
I don't think the Messiah, Rags to Riches will come again.
I think she is done.

More is sometimes less
and the new format is just greed

The newbie to casual to hardcore description is correct but remember, only a very few ever become hardcore. Drive away 2 or 3 of them and 1000 newbies doesn't make up for it.

I also am not sure how placing a bunch of (supposedly) important events on a weekday will draw NEW fans. Several people who post here (presumed hardcore fans/players) have said that they wouldn't bother with Friday. If that's the case, what the devil makes BC think that some receptionist from Pasadena with no connection to racing will skip work on Fri to go to the track???!!!

Places like Louisville, Lexington, Saratoga and DelMar have sufficient casual fans and locals who want to see and be seen at the big events to fill the stands. They have tradition and location in their favor. I grew up in Albany and Saratoga has been part of my conciouness ALL MY LIFE. I'm sure kids in Lexington feel the same about Keeneland. With the BC being (supposedly) a moving event, how does one establish the tradition? Places like I mentioned rely on local tradition, parents taking kids to the the races. Kids choosing to continue to attend, bringing their kids someday.

I am most disappointed with the renaming of the Distaff. I admit to being a big fan of Personal Ensign. I think most would agree that her race in the Distaff is one of the best moments in horse racing history. To have that race renamed as the Ladies Classic just doesnt seem right to me. As many have already posted I think they again miss the boat on the intelligence of the racing fan. Ladies Classic is geared more towards the person (not generally the racing fan). I guess the word Distaff was too difficult for the mass population.

But if they said that, they're correct.

They'd be 100% correct. Look at Kentucky Oaks day. Sure, there are probably better ideas that they can come up with and hopefully, they will continue to be open to tinkering with it to find what is the absolute best situation. But these changes aren't going to have any negative impact on the fans that watch the races at all. None.

That's just so wrong that it's almost depressing.

There will be many people who don't see the Friday races that will be denied seeing the races decided Saturday that belong as part of the marquis event. Instead they will see inconsequential filler.

Some of us " fans " aren't enamoured with turf sprints....now we are forced to deal with one if we want to play Pick-4s on Saturday ( involving other true championship races ). I know this fan won't be playing.

Why does the Kentucky Oaks work on Friday but people think that the audience for the Friday BC races won't?

The Kentucky Oaks Day is basically a holiday in Louisville. Do you think Pasadena is planning a similar situation?

The Kentucky Oaks is big in Louisville, and it is part of the one race that captures the attention of non-racing fans, and yet it's supporting races are still probably missed by the vast majority of racing fans.

I agree with maintaining a traditional Saturday lineup. Friday should be for the newbies. Hey, some people work Saturdays too. Not everybody works Mon-Fri. So the Friday makes sense to me for the newer races only.

I use the term "fan" loosely...perhaps "wagering participant" is more appropo...

....and Churchill gets 50,000 or more on Thursday before the Oaks. And schools are closed on Friday.

Never say never.

this is the biggest problem i see with these moves, i agree completely. they've watered down saturday terribly.

The way I look at it...the more the merrier. I like giving the horses an opportunity to compete. I may not agree with the exact lineup, but generally I feel a star can be born in any race. I'm positive about the 2 days.

I would have agreed with this before observing how racing fans showed very little enthusiasm when presented with the opportunity to bet with a 4% takeout last summer, prefering instead to "figure out" how to beat a 16-20% takeout elsewhere.

--Dunbar

With so many years of stability in the Breeders Cup, you have just so many changes over the past number of years that it has gotten a bit crazy. I suppose most people are thinking what the hell have they got in store for next year??

I couldn't blame anyone for not betting Ellis Park if they offered free bets. Even though a lot of fans read the form and dont really know what they are doing, at least they can read unlike the vast majority of the NASCAR fan base (sorry Cajun and Slotdirt)