I always think it is a shame that Goodbye Halo never gets mentioned in in these kind of threads. She was from the same crop as Winning Colors, and while WC certainly has to be considered the best 3yo filly from that year, Goodbye Halo was a hell of a filly and a 7-time G1 winner.
If you haven't watched the famous '88 Distaff in awhile, check it out on youtube. That race wasn't simply a 2-horse finish by any means.

I think I might take her over Rags as well.

Winning Colors. I don't see how there could be an argument against that.

Comparing Rags to Riches to many of the wonderful fillies and mares from past years is a typical myopic view you see on the internet from people who simply don't even know about the past.

What if Rags to Riches was a 3YO in 1990?

My bad.

good point.


1990- she would be an also ran that year as well....

I have admitted that I was wrong repeatedly about the statement that I would be surprised if he would make it to the Derby. I will not say who the experts are. They speak over most heads, and they will be called wrong because most can't understand. However, I will not admit that I was wrong about the statements of him having soundness issues because I am not wrong.

Honestly, Jessica... most thoroughbreds have soundness problems. Pointing out one that is actually sound would showcase your knowledge much better.

This is great stuff.

second this.

Yeah, I was just trying to think of all the internet debates I've seen if there is any more lame attempt to prove your point than to say experts agree with you but you won't say who they are because they are above others heads. I couldn't come up with one.

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, does it really make a sound?

If an expert makes an observation and nobody understand it cause it's wrong, is he really an expert?

If God forbid, this Littlemisslittlemisscan'tbewrong actually goes on to the profession she claims she is working towards, imagine the untold and unfortunate possibilities of her future diagnostic work ????!!!!!!


The identities of the so-called experts she draws upon which can not be understood by the masses and therefore can not be assessed at EITHER right nor wrong, exist only in her head .... Where no one can touch them ... Is it any wonder then, that she alone understands them ???

And the world is flat too ...

Twaddle and flatulence ...

Blackthroatedwind---I agree with you, but isn't it Temple Gwathney ????

This may qualify you as one of those experts nobody can understand.

I knew someone would get me on that!

I am honored ...

Have they even run that race in the last ten years?

I am thinking not, but I am not sure ...

At least not at Belmont. I'm wondering if they may run it somewhere else.

I'm just not as up on Steeplechase racing as I should be.

Hey---this race is so obscure now I effed up as well----it is the Temple GwathMey ... Two and five eighths mile originally---and yes at Belmont .. A former flat racer I liked won it in 1975---that would be Happy Intellectual ...

Winning Colors. She beat really good horses and went up against the boys on more than one occassion. And my God that '88 BC, that was two great hearts wanting the win. After all these years folks still talk about Winning Colors while I'm afraid that Rags might not get mentioned even 5 years from now unless she could come back in her 4YO season and be better than last year.

i'm going to go against the grain (and a very popular idea here) and say that since winning colors was a shell of her former self after the preakness, that her bc loss to PE diminishes PE somewhat.

or maybe i'm not saying that right. what i'm trying to say is that even a ruined WC, far from her best, still almost beat PE. a perfectly healthy and sound WC romps in that race.

The ONE thing that I will agree with KYRM on in this thread is that you don't have to have been alive at the time to do this type of comparison.
I wasn't around to see Citation or Johnny Unitas compete, but I think I am still qualified to say that they were better than Cause to Believe and Rex Grossman respectively.

you beat me to it....

i thought it was gwathmy?

and then i read on and saw prudery beat me to that.


well, if a winner going longer is better than a winner at shorter, then steeplechasing should be considered the creme de la creme. go longer, carry more weight, and have to keep jumping all at the same time.

I see your point, but I would like to add a muddling thought to it---Personal Ensign was running on a track she disliked and still overcame it, so it might be thought that both horses were compromised and the result may have been the same had both had their optimum conditions satisfied and were both at their respective peaks ... I do give the edge to Winning Colors over Rags to Riches however, but I believe the BCD result would have remained unchanged .... IMO, the race flattered them both, and a tip of the hat to Goodbye Halo as aforementioned ...
It is also possible that Winning Colors grandfathered herself back to her glory days on that occassion, and Personal Ensign was tailing off ... I do not believe in any way a finish like that diminishes anything ...
As far as a perfectly healthy Winning Colors romping, do not see that either ... Personal Ensign was determined to stay perfect ... And she did ...

I see what you are saying here but that would mean that you have to believe that Winning Colors was only a shell of her former self after the Preakness. I don't believe that to be anywhere close to true. For the Belmont, she obviously was worn out but after getting some time off, she came back better than ever and I think her races in the Maskette and BC Distaff were as good as her efforts in the spring.

Prudery makes the point that the track conditions in the BC were not to Personal Ensign's liking and that may have comprimised her some. I don't know if that's true or not. PE ran a winning race in the Whitney on a sloppy track when she beat Gulch and there is no way to actually know how much a horse likes or dislikes a track.

My opinion is not that PE defeated a lesser version of WC but a better one. And as impressive as the BC win was, I was even more impressed by the Maskette win because it came at a shorter distance that should have been even more advantageous to WC.

I believe Randy Romero said she did not handle the track at all for the BCD---although that may have been jockeyspeak, but I do think she rallied later and more laboringly than she usually did ... Do not recall if the Whitney was a fast or a slow sloppy track---as you know all slop is not equal ... Forego was not a mudder horse --and was scratched for mud, but was successful on a muddy track that he got traction on ... Sloppy, muddy, fast wet, slow wet---minutae--but it can make a difference ...
Agree about the Maskette ...

As of today, Winning Colors is MUCH more accomplished of a race horse. R2R needs to show me more before I can put her up there with the likes of WC.

For a second there, I thought you were going to say that Citation would have kicked Johnny Unitas's butt.

--Dunbar

Yep, exactly!

--Dunbar

It wasn't a wrong observation.

I just spit my drink out. Lost in the Fog...overrated? You have got to be kidding me...

This statement really doesn't even warrant a response, so I won't even try. It won't do any good anyway.

I do not pretend to know everything. I do not know everything. No one does. It is horse racing.

Exactly. Thank you for proving my point even more.

You are overestimating her.

Which was what?

Name a 3 year old from last year that you think was 100% sound.

she'll get back to you as soon as she goes through her extensive video collection....and confirms with the elusive experts.

That emotion was the reason he was a great toss out as a huge underlay in the BC Sprint.

<snerk>


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and then there's the translation into laymens terms, else it would go over our heads...

I already know I'm not bright enough to understand....I've stopped trying.

She's well on her way to a lucrative track management position.