I can tell you this, it's always a good idea to claim off of Asmussen because his barn is based on talent and not magic.

OK, who here wants to volunteer to be the bearer of the bad news?

I called the horse a rat. That's what I think of him. So what? If that's something that DaHoss took personal, then I'm sorry it offended him. If that was his invitation to take shots at me, so be it. Even so, I still never suggested that he has a bad record or that mine is better than his.

Based on what?

What performance of his was so bad or so wildly overrated - for him to earn the rat label?

I'd like to see this horse in another barn. You would probably end up being vindicated.

As I put in parenthesis in the rest of that post... I knew this was coming...

Hey, just because when horses run for Asmussen, Durtrow, Lake, or Jane Vayders, they all grow wings. And then when they claimed away from said trainers, the Wings retract, doesn't mean anything... IT'S ALL TALENT BABY... and maybe a little cobra venom.

Well it's important that these great personalities continue without the worry of being suspended. The sport needs guys like Asmussen and Dutrow to shine on national television in order to attract new fans (rapists, murderers, tax cheats, O.J.) to the game.

Now those 4 personalities are a lil more harsh than girlfriends, wives, cops, and cross-examining lawyers as mentioned earlier I hope Blackthroat?

so, um, hossy, um, do ya have a girlfriend?

OOOOOOOOOO!



( He already blew the money on hookers and crack.....too late. )

how about a boyfriend?

I'm way ahead of you on that one. Sorry.

Oh?

Based on the postings in this thread, I figured you had dibs on Pmayjr.

Does he know you are a two-timer?

It really all depends on how Hossy feels about SCAT

I don't think they were bad. I do think they were overrated. Rat for me is a relative term. I just mean below the top level. Pyro has a chance to be a very good horse. He's obviously talented and has the ability to be in the upper ranks of this year's 3yo class. With so many races out there, he should win his share of them and could make a good career for himself. But I feel like he's overrated. I see it every year. Horses that look like the longer they go, the better they'll be. The ones that look like when they get a little bit more distance, they'll run past those same rivals that kept finishing in front of them. But it never seems to happen. I look at the lead-up to the BC Juvenile. In the DRF selections section, more people had Pyro picked over War Pass than the other way around, despite the fact that War Pass had already beaten Pyro twice. They added distance and another turn and War Pass beats him by more. Toss it because of the sloppy track if you want to but the fact remains that on three different tracks (Sar, Bel, Mon), on three different surfaces (good, fast, sloppy), at three different distances (6f, 8f, 8.5f), at one-turn and at two....War Pass has been better than Pyro at each step. Yet if you look at most rankings, you would swear that War Pass is the one that has to catch up to Pyro because of what most people THINK will happen in the future.

Perhaps you should add to your signature your definition of terms that vary wildly from what is generally accepted as a definition by most everyone else?

Or, at least qualify it when you use such a term in a way that is inconsistent with how everyone else would use it?

King Glorious-ran 7f in 1:21 1/5, which the DRF printed at the time was equal to the second fastest 7f ever run by a 3yo. Was a grade one winner of the Hollywood Futurity and the Haskell. Finished 8 for 9 in his brief career. Maybe he wouldn't have beaten Easy Goer and Sunday Silence that year but his former rider, hall of famer Chris McCarron, who rode Sunday Silence also, once said that it was his opinion (and I think he knows a little something about horses) that up to a mile, EG and SS wouldn't have been able to catch KG. I know a mile is not the classic distance but it's still meaningful. If KG was as good as they were up to a mile, according to McCarron, that's enough for me to believe that my belief in his ability is not totally unfounded.

Java Gold-won the Whitney, Travers, and Marlboro Cup and was 1/9 to win the JCGC, before being upset. He almost undoubtedbly would have been named HOY had he won that race, having already beaten Alysheba and Bet Twice in the Travers. Yeah, I know, sloppy track. BTW has pointed out that his other major wins also came on wet tracks. But in wins against Broad Brush (who had already beaten that year's HOY Ferdinand) and Gulch (Met Mile, Wood, Gotham) and Polish Navy (Woodward), he had shown that he was a legit horse. Mack Miller called him his best horse ever and he had some good ones.

Lammtarra-won the Epsom Derby in his second career start, off a seven-month layoff, setting a track record in the process. Came back to beat older in the King George and then the Arc to retire 4 of 4. If an American horse were to do the equivalent, win a maiden sprint in October then come back in May to set a track record in the Derby, followed by wins in the Hollywood Gold Cup and BC Classic, he would be hailed as Pegasus.

Smarty Jones-Bobby Frankel, another who's been around a few good horses in his lifetime, said that Smarty was right up there with horses like Bid and other greats. He also got endorsements from guys like Gary Stevens and Jerry Bailey. Or are we all just way out in left field?

Go for Wand-Any horse that can run 7f in 1:21 flat then come back in nine days and run 10f in 2:00 4/5 is a special horse. Do you know that in the history of Saratoga, only General Assembly (2:00), Honest Pleasure (2:00 1/5) have gone faster (Easy Goer and Thunder Rumble did equal it)? Then to top that off, she came back to win a 9f race at Belmont in 1:45 4/5, only 2/5 off of Secretariat's track record. Before falling down, she was nose and nose with Bayakoa in the stretch of the BC Distaff (I thought she was going to win). Bayakoa is arguably the best distaffer in the past 20 years and almost without a doubt would be in everyone's top 3-5. Go for Wand did all of this as a 3yo filly.

Maybe you are right though. Maybe I am horrible at analyzing talent. But if guys like McCarron, Miller, Frankel, Bailey, and Stevens agree with me on some of this stuff, I'm proud to be horrible.

all i want to know is where is the pine island memorial.. and damit if wonder lady ann l isnt at the top of my where are they now list.....

I would like to own Pyro, even though he's a rat.

Surprised it took four pages to get this post. Thought it would come immediately.

It's like nails on a chalkboard.

Give me some credit.

I could never have done it were it not for your equally ridiculous post using the same lines of thinking prior to mine.

C'mon B-dub... If you get the job done in Vegas last weekend you coulda bought a 5% share in him... So in the end, it's your own damn fault lol.

I don't mean to pile on here KG, but I was shocked that nobody replied to this comment. What exactly do you mean here? Do you mean everyone on here is "close to the same" in terms of their ability to analyze talent and/or handicap? If I am reading you right, and that is in fact what you are saying, I completely disagree. There are a number of people on this board that know at least fifty times what I do, and have probably had fifty times the success too.
That is what I like about this kind of board. It gives people like me and you a chance to argue horses, not just with each other, but with people that are actually good at this business. To say everyone on here is "close to the same" seems like an insult to those people on here that are actually really good.

Let me make sure I'm getting this right...

You are primarily basing your argument for King Glorious being the best horse to race in the last 22 years because Chris McCarron (a jockey!) said he felt Easy Goer or Sunday Silence might not catch him at distances up to a mile??

Wow.

Look, i've seen film of many King Glorious races - he was an excellent talent for sure and was probably a lot better than most people (besides you obviously) think he was.

However, he was simply not the best horse to race in the last 22 years.

There are some that are better at certain aspects of the game. I understand that. And I didn't literally mean every single person. I'm saying that in general, I believe that if u took most of the people from this forum, we'd come out pretty close to the same. I might catch a Smarty Jones and call him a Derby winner in January. I might catch a Curlin in March and say that he'll prove to be the best 3yo by the end of the year. I might also catch a Galloping Grocer and think he's going to be a superstar or pick Cause to Believe to win the Derby. I think that over time, most of us pretty much even out. That's all I was saying. I have some good ones on my record. Perhaps I was just lucky every time. The reason I like this board is because I know that I don't know it all and that there are people that see things from different perspectives and can point out things that can help me. But that doesn't mean that they are never wrong just as it doesn't mean that I can't ever be right.

Not at all. I used McCarron's comments as a basis for saying that the belief in how good he was is not totally off the wall if someone that has ridden him and another horse (SS) that if I had listed him #1, nobody would say anything, is somewhat in agreement with it.

I agree with the second thing I have highlighted here, but I disagree with the first. If everyone on this board participated in some sort of lengthy contest with a lot of races involved, I think the top handicappers would come out ahead. Does that mean that on a given day an average or below-average handicapper like me can't beat a pro? Of course not. Does it mean the average cappers shouldn't voice their opinions too? Nope.
But in the long run, none of that changes the fact that they'll beat me....and you. Sure we might catch the big winner every once in a blue moon that they miss, but I don't think that changes the fact that there is a fairly vast difference between the great handicappers and the average handicappers, and also between the average handicappers and the clueless morons.

Jockeys are terrible handicappers.

I'm not speaking of handicapping though. In that area, I do believe that there is a big difference among us on here. When it comes to handicapping and wagering, I'm arguably the biggest idiot on here because I'm too stubborn. But look at the example I gave earlier. I didn't believe that Midnight Lute would win the Sprint. Nine times out of 10, I wouldn't have included him on my ticket because I have a hard time justifying to myself playing a horse that I think can't win. And I would have lost. But this time, I did play him and I cashed a ticket. I cashed even though when I handicapped and analyzed the race, I didn't figure him as a winner. So while I admit that when it comes to handicapping and figuring out how to construct tickets and bet, there can be big differences, I think that when it comes to just flat out picking out who's a good horse and who's a bad horse, we are pretty much even.

Looks like somebody took a shot on pyro in the BC........................what a clown.

You waited three months between posts for this brilliance?

I think it's pretty apparent who's a clown.

sorry, I'll be a little quicker next time clown