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seriously, i think people leaped at poly, but are mismanaging it the same way they mismanaged their dirt surfaces. look at the tracks that still have dirt that are not seeing the numbers that del mar and arlington had last year. why? because they are focused on taking care of what they have, and doing it properly. installing poly won't help, if the mind set hasn't changed, and if no proper care is given the surface. |
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I hope that they start to realise what work has to be carried out so they can start to manage to surface properly, and then all the doubters would crawl back into their holes. Racing is a sport that doesn't react well to change of any kind, and it will take sometime for some people to like the poly, but it will happen. We have been racing on poly for around 5-7 years now, i think. I remember the first day Lingfield opened it's gates to the new surface and invited trainers from all parts to take part in 'trial' races. No one was quite sure how they would react to it, but the comments were amazing. "rides like a thick layer of snow" i think was one of the quotes from the jockeys, and the trainers were also as happy. It shouldn't have been an issue because these horses have been trained on poly for many years now and there are some trainers that swear by it. John Dunlop (who is one of the old school) never gallops his horses on turf, he uses the artificial surfaces instead, mostly poly and woodchip. There will be a few that will knock the poly all day long, but all i suggest to them is to come to England or at least get in contact with some of our trainers, or even the tracks themselves and get a proper opinion. |
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Arlington's is a lighter color, almost like an ocean sand from a distance. |
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Sounds like Arlington have the same style as Wolverhampton do. Probably not exact, but that is a very light colour, where as Lingfield is a much darker colour polytrack |
More on AP breakdowns
There were 3 breakdowns over the past two days and one horse had a heart attack and died instantly on the track. The two horses who broke down on Thurs are both from the Catalano/Calabrese tandem. I asked my trainer about claiming the one in the 6th race (limited races/decent beyers and breeding, coming off a win at 10 dropping to 5). He indicated that he had asked the trainer who had the horse prior to Cat/Cal who said that both knees were totally shot and that the horse was actually vanned back to the barn following its win in the previous race so we luckily passed. Don't know the backstory on the other horse that broke down Thurs other than the fact that both of these horses were claimed. The sad irony of the story is that Cat/Cal claimed the horse that broke down on Friday. Unfortunately losers all the way around.
In talking to trainers they say that the poly has led to more minor injuries in the morning than they recall from recent years. Probably leading to some of the breakdowns as some trainers have a reputation for running sore horses. |
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Bute has been used on horses since the 60's, well before the "deteration" of the breed and I would love to see evidence that Lasix causes more breakdowns. |
I didn't even know they used brute on horses. must help to control the smell.
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i say it was bad horses with problems and not the race surface.
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We talkin da real deal joe. We face you if ya got da problem. Bring it on bum.
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Four breakdowns
The sight of four horses failing to finish races in two days last week dredged up unpleasant memories of last season, when Arlington breakdowns put the track surface here under close scrutiny, but Arlington made it through Million weekend without further incident. Two horses racing Thursday on Polytrack suffered leg injuries and were pulled up and vanned off, and a third horse Friday, Carmel My Belle, broke down badly in the second race. A race later, Shake went down on the backstretch, but he was the victim of a pulmonary hemorrhage rather than a leg injury. |
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Did we cover that yet, or not? |
Just want to let some of you who dont follow racing in on whats happening with this surface.
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I sense that some of you guys cannot take change very well. Polytrack is here to stay and it is a good surface, if your tracks managed it correctly it would be altogether different.
Sure it won't be as quick as dirt, and nor will it be so harsh on horses. Get used to it, if you find it difficult to bet on, don't bet on it....... is anyone making you? Stop blaming the surface and start blaming the tracks, if they looked after it you would see a massive surface. I have seen just how good Polytrack is over the last five or so years to know that it isn't the surface causing all of these problems in America. |
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Have to say I've had very little experience with the surface though, the only time I've seen it live was when I was on a family holiday in the UK in 2005 and went out to Lingfield. But that was a totally awesome day, the track was absolutely beautiful and winners were coming from all over the place - a couple of horses led all the way, some came from the back, some burst through from midfield. And not only that, but the best horses were winning - one of the races was won by a horse called Cesare. I hope it ends up exactly the same at the US tracks. |
2 more breakdowns friday. Looks like its time for a reality check.
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I wouldn't look too much into Tomillo's breakdown. It is the owner of Lord of the Game, who took all the cash that horse won them and got 10k claimers(others people garbage) and now they run all of them for 4k. Almost all of Tomillo's horses are sore and beaten down, IMO. But yeah, they are still going to break down on this stuff, the breakdown from the other day that injured Penalba was much worse from a sight perspective |
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You don't like Poly, you have expressed that, but judging what people have been saying about your posts you have been making up many of these "break downs". From what i have heard, many of the horses that have "broken down" are horses that looked to be in bad condition anyway, so you may want to blame some trainers and the track rather than the brilliant surface. If Arlington aren't managing it properly, it becomes their fualt. Nothing else. Or can't you understand that? |
i think we should have a debate between the bid and sumitas on the issue of polytrack.
ought to be entertaining. |
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Why would the near exact same surface be so good over here but yet so bad over there? I will tell you why. Because our tracks that have Poly can maintain and mamnge it properly, making it one of the best artificial surfaces a horse can race on. |
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I'm just fed up of hearing people slam the Poly for no reason, when it should be the track that is getting slammed for not preparing the surface correctly. There is another course with Polytrack in Europe now. In Ireland to be specific. They had a trial race day there the other day before their first 'proper' race day next week. All of the trainers and jockeys reported it to be a beautiful and safe surface. All three of our polytrack surfaces have had next to no problems, so i cannot see why it is having all of the problems over there, unless it isn't being prepared correctly. That surely is the only reason other than the theory of much weaker horses racing in America. |
the problems comes in when trainers think that the track is a magic pill that a horse in bad shape can run over with no ill affects.
and of course there are the tracks who installed it while wearing rose-colored glasses and now have to go back and read the manual! think about it, how many of us buy something, put it together, have parts left over (do they send extras? i'm sure they must BE extra pieces) realize there's a problem, and go back and read the instructions. and then the lightbulb comes on. no one said that the track would eliminate all breakdowns (after all how can it, when not all breakdowns are related to surface, but to issues with the horse itself?) but would be a safer alternative. i'm not so sure that the best poly is safer than the best dirt surface, but i'd imagine it's better than many of the dirt tracks that it's replacing. most people are resistant to change-it's our nature. BUT, if the change is made, we have to hope the track does everything it can to get it right-but by the same token, a trainer needs to do HIS job right as well. |
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of course bid is located near turfway and arlington, so i doubt he cares much about del mar. i know turfway had many more problems last year than their first with the artificial, and arlington has some work to do. but i think arlington is ahead of where they were. i'm just not totally sold that a good poly is better than a good dirt surface. unless of course you've got a turf track and hope to keep full fields when they come off due to weather. |
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With Arlington off TVG can't keep up with Arlington as much as I used to. And agreed that the problems seem to be with lower level claimers, and as you said with horses that are claimed then dropped and run back. Yeah, no matter what you do there are always going to be breakdowns whether it is the track, the horse, bad management by owners or trainers. But I don't find Arlington as hard to figure out as Del Mar or Keeneland. I miss Arlington on TV.....:( BTW How are the jocks? |
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Wolverhampton had problems with the freezing track in the winter, but they just about managed to get through it by harrowing it after EVERY race to kep the surface moving. However, they also found that heavy snow fall can find out the Poly. Really heavy snow will settle on the track and cause it to freeze under the layer of snow. There was nothing they could do about that. From all the stats i have seen, Poly is a much safer surface than dirt, but that doesn't give a true reflection because, as you say there have been some great dirt surfaces and some truly awful ones. What i will say is that the dirt was often a very fast surface, and made fast because that's how the track wanted it. If that dirt surface becomes too fast there is very little cushion in it and that is no good for half a ton of horse. The Poly can ride fast or slow, depending how the track preapre it, but however it rides, it will always have that much needed cushion to minimise bone concussion in the horse's limbs. |
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http://horseracing.sportsline.com/cb...rticleId=21118
found that article by crist...originally was in drf, and then sportsline ran it. |
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We prefer tactical racing, the jocks use their brains (well, most of them) rather than just say "well, lets have a pac duell with four other horses, get posted five ride round the bends and not have a chance of winning". Just because you now have what once was just a european surface, it doesn't mean the races have to run like european races. As i said, if Arlington and the other tracks were to prepare it to ride like a dirt surface (but safer), which can be done...... the problem that you're having would be solved. |
We'll see if they can get it right. Like Crist said, we have more extreme weather here and I don't think many who rushed to judgement took that into account. I won't rip Turfway Park because they have to race thru brutal conditions and from what I've seen, their racing has been more like normal dirt racing than the other synthetic tracks. And they were losing race dates. Arlington? I hated to see my local track get it but I knew it was going to happen because of all the bad publicity last year. The Chicago Tribune, a paper who basically eliminated horse racing coverage and charts ten years ago, was on a witch hunt to make AP look bad. Was it the surface? Maybe, but I think some trainers were definitely to blame for some of the breakdowns we saw last year (which seem to be escalating recently).
But California? This was just plain wrong for the CHRB to mandate synthetic surfaces on all the tracks. They don't have weather issues out there. If this was a reaction to breakdowns at Dmr last year, then fine, just put it there but don't penalize the other tracks and fans. And Keeneland? That track has become a laughingstock. The Poly propagandists love to point at the Sinister Minister race as being fraudulent but I would argue that the most fraudulent Grade 1 on dirt I've ever seen was the Blue Grass this year.....and I even nailed the exacta so it wasn't sour grapes. A little bit of synthetic is fine; a good alternative for winter tracks like Turfway....I could see Aqueduct replacing the inner dirt with it and it probably would make sense. But to see tracks like Keeneland and Santa Anita go to it is just wrong. I hope to God Saratoga and CD never go to it because that will be the end of American style racing as we know it. |
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i'm thinking the type of poly selected may be a big part of the equation. i believe hollywood was praised as being almost no different from a dirt surface-having gone with Cushion Track. arlington has been pretty kind to all types of horses, as the #'s have been showing. seems turfway is the one who had the worst of it, and of course right now del mar (poly, not cushion)is showing a bias. golden gate is going with Tapeta. i still think these tracks should have stayed with dirt, that had they invested in revamping their dirt track, they'd have been fine. it's not like you can lay down a dirt surface and it will last forever. and if they had the mentality that it WOULD last forever, they may have the same style of thinking that poly is maintenance free, rather than taking care of it correctly. but you may as well get used to it, it's not like those tracks are going to lay out 9 million, and then pull it right back up again. but perhaps in future tracks might consider going with cushion like at hollywood--seems some of the confusion is based on calling all these artificial surfaces poly track, when that is only one type....kind of like calling all tissue brands a kleenex! |
JJP hit the nail on the head. Why in the world would Southern California, with some of the best weather in the world, need an all weather surface? The whole thing is becoming a joke, much like most of the races on the stuff.
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mandella won half the card that day--he had a homefield advantage. |
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The problem I have with the fake stuff is the constant tinkering not only from day to day, but even between races. It is very tough for a bettor to handicap the night before, because you have absolutely no idea what to expect. |
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