Yeah hes underachieved with 8 champs, all those grade ones and Breeders Cup wins. That is just one of the most foolish comments I have ever heard, but I guess everyone has the right to a bad opinion.

Okay so who are among the best?

Any of you guys who want a good laugh about this argument need to go to www.nyra.com and click on nyra publications, then on bios. When you click on Stewart and then click on champions he has trained the page is blank. The you click on Grade one wins and Nyra stakes wins and 3 horses pop up.
YOu click on Shugs and when you click on champs you get 8, and then when you click on grade one wins and NYra stakes winners, the page is so long that pops up that you actually have to scroll long and hard just to read them all. Its amazing, absolutely incredible.

Has he not been given the finest horse flesh year in and year out? I personally like Shug, but he should be training champs.

Honestly, you have now eclipsed your contention that Dallas Stewart is " among the best " with this nonsensical comment about the horses Shug gets annually. He gets next to NO horses bought at Private Auction. The great racemares from over ten years ago ( yes, believe it or not it's been ten years ) have been pretty unproductive producers.

The job he did with Easy Goer, who had an ankle that would have kept many trainers from getting him to the races, was spectacular. He won the Gotham, Wood, ran in all three TC races, won the Whitney, Travers, Woodward and JCGC before finishing second in the BC Classic. That is a campaign that is unheard of today. Yeah, he was a great horse, but Shug's job with him may be unparalleled in recent training times.

Personal Ensign broke down as a 2YO, and raced with screws in her leg, yet Shug managed and maintained her through two more undefeated seasons. Compared to today's superstar trainers, who seem to have flash in the pan after flash in the pan, this was another tremendous job.

Hell, even resurecting Storm Flag Flying into a very nice 4YO campaign two years ago was a tremendous job. Unlike so many other trainers, Shug actually brought her back from the dead. Most, these days, have a similar pattern of quick explosion followed by quicker disintegration....and NO resurrection.

Yes, Shug has gotten some very well bred horses in the past, and surely he couldn't have posted the AMAZING results he has without them, but he has absolutely delivered.

Well I dunno but if you think a guy who has trained 8 champs and is 2nd lifetime in Breeders Cup wins and who has won all those grade one races is an "underachiever" then I don't think that you and anyone else are going to share a whole lot of common ground on this topic. As far as I am concerned all of your credibility went straight out the window with that comment on one of the greatest who ever trained a horse being an underachiever. How many guys in histpry do you figure their are who have a better resume than Shug? Maybe like 10 guys(if that) in the history of the millions of guys who have tried their hand at this game?

How could anyone who knows anything about this game attempt to argue this?

I know Shug, and his 10% this year, with nothing but blue bloods is amazing. Hasd any single trainer burned more betting monet than Shug?

Well, I guess it's a " what have you done for me lately " world we live in.

Oh, I forgot, Shug won the BC Distaff last year.

Actually his percentage is 13%. Below par for him, I admit it, but it's getting better. I guess that record compiled in under 100 starts, eclipses a virtually unparalleled lifetime of acheivement.

You gotta stop. Seriously.

Since Shug is so good, how many classics since 1989? Oh and you make money betting Shug? Impossible.

he also took a filly who had screws in her leg and kept her undefeated over a 3 year campaign in which:
she won at Aqueduct, belmont, CD, Monmouth, and saratoga
she won in the slop and on dry tracks
she beat the boys in a grade one
she won going 7f, one mile, one mile and 70 yards, one mile and an eigth, and one mile and a quarter
she never lost, ever

The finest training job on a single horse in our lifetimes and one that is unlikely to ever be surpassed. Give me some of that underachievment anyday.

Actually three...not bad...but who's counting.

Yeah it was an amazing training job 2 decades ago. Emphasis on the 2 decades ago part.

Don't forget those Travers either. They arent too shabby.

Actually, Personal Ensign never ran at Aqueduct.

Why should he stop? The guy's a clairvoyant (knows what Baffert is thinking at all times), a genius (proclaimed TMB a bad bet days after the race) and no doubt, if hard pressed, can, with little effort, pull an entire room of furniture out of his ass.

Sweetness is my newest hero.

Did she not win the rare Perfume there? I dont have her pp's in front of me but I thought at age three that she had a fall campaign and raced there. If not I regret the inaccuracy.

The Rare Perfume was at Belmont.....eight days before she won the Beldame.

Ok my mistake then. I loved that Beldame, did she not beat Clabber Girl?

Just wanted to apologize for taking it to the nasty level on what was a good forum. As I said Oracle and I have a history, and I'm not the guys biggest fan, but I shouldn't have gone there. I have asked Steve to remove me, for sanity purposes, and may return at some point under a different name. Good Luck all.

Could I please ask who you are? All of the threats and accusations and lies and i have no idea who you even are. What was your agenda here?

Mike I had no agenda here, and you have done your fair share of threats and all of the other stuff. This is far and away the finest horse racing site on the net, and besides being involved in it, love dishing about it. I just can't stand you spewing your BS all around it, and not open my mouth. I watched you personally attack Joel, which I guess people forget, but I guess it's like the saying says people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Just don't try and act like you are an angel, because check the threads, you are usually the first person to get nasty, and I guess since I know what kind of a guy you are I can't stand it.

Scav I know that. You know damn well I know you arent really bi polar but you have to admit that GPK kinda gave you a name that stuck. And whats the deal? you find religion or something? Yoiu havent gone an a gambling rant on here in over two weeks? YOu been kidnapped?

Call it on account of darkness..
 

OK.. over.. I think everyone's calmed down and appropriate gestures are made...

I cleaned this really good trainer discussion up.. Let's move on.. Nothing to see here folks..

SB

Do me a favor, you are a coward and liar to attempt to use my first name as if I have any idea who you are whatsoever. I think you are just another loon hiding behind a keyboard. At least Joel and most others don't go to great pains to hide who they are.
How can anyone believe a word you say? take care and seeya. I gave you my address feel free to stop by anytime and show me how tough you are, I wont hold my breath waiting though.

Bothers you that I know you doesn't it.

So you are involved with this site? Do tell.

Meant involved in horse racing and love dishing about it, sorry teach.

No quite frankly I think you need help. men don't make up things and hide behind keyboards and send messages saying they are going to get someone and then explain they cant say who they are,lol. Its comical and actually pathetic.
So far your horse knowledge hasn't exactly set the world on fire either. Shug is an underachiever? Geez.

Is that going to be in cryptic code as well? What is it that you do in the game?

As I recall the threats were coming from you. I just said you will get yours, it's called KARMA my man.

LOL!!! Well Lama(big hittter the Lama) I will take that under advisement. get help, and soon.

Yeah it is. Let me ask you this, any coincidence that all the conflicts seem to have one thing in common, Oracle. You're funny.

Vegas starts on Thursday, plenty of rants will come when I get back....First bet when I walk in the door is on $200 Vijay to win Western, 2nd bet is $500 on Italy to smoke whoever they are playing tomorrow, 3rd bet is $500 on first possible 'war' table I can find.

Mini rant was Prairie Meadows on Friday.....Had a $5 pick four, 3 legs in with beating Circle of Wind and the overbet Cali horse, Doocy is on the Laviolette list after his ride, got nosed after closing 15 lengths, moron...

Need to take two days completely off and let my eyes recalibrate, been getting WAY too many seconds recently....

I'll get help when you pay back all of the people that you owe money to.

With all duer respect ...

... the guy has trained nearly a thousand of the best-bred colts in the world ... and has yet to develop even one into a champion at classic distances.

He's the King Of The MSW Sprints ... and does very well with fillies ... but he hasn't developed a colt into a champion ... and ... until he does ... he doesn't deserve to be compared with any of the really good trainers.

I can't say he isn't an incredible trainer? Yes ... I can ...

... He isn't an incredible trainer.

This coming from the guy who said Mayan King, a listed stake winner at best will be HOY.

Was Left Bank not champion older horse? Seemed like he did a pretty good job with him.

I thought you were leaving ...

... BUH-BYE !!!