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Cannon Shell 07-13-2007 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski
...which brings me to my point that there should be a state vet system overseeing ALL trainers.

This is highly unlikely for a few reasons. One is that horses are based in many places not just at the track they are running at so you would need an army of vets to cover them all. Secondly, a vet that has experience with a horse is much more likely to be able to diagnose issues or potential issues than a vet who is seeing a horse for the first time. Third and most importantly is that most state vets are either inexperienced or simply not very good. There is a reason that they are working long hours and being subjected to a ton of grief for about 20% of what top private practice racetrack vets make.

Cannon Shell 07-13-2007 02:07 PM

Frankel may scratch alot but he is a tremendous horseman who treats his horses with a great deal of care. I am not defending his insanity regarding the weights which he seems to take personally but he is not the kind of guy that would run a horse who wasn't at his best, unlike a lot of other high profile trainers out there. You can feel pretty good about betting on his horses when he actually runs them because you know they are well meant and most likely 100%.

Sightseek 07-13-2007 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Frankel may scratch alot but he is a tremendous horseman who treats his horses with a great deal of care. I am not defending his insanity regarding the weights which he seems to take personally but he is not the kind of guy that would run a horse who wasn't at his best, unlike a lot of other high profile trainers out there. You can feel pretty good about betting on his horses when he actually runs them because you know they are well meant and most likely 100%.

Best post of the thread. :)

Cannon Shell 07-13-2007 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek
Best post of the thread. :)

Do I get a prize?

Sightseek 07-13-2007 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Do I get a prize?

:p

I'll bake you cookies and bring coffee when I come to visit Sumwon at Saratoga...any preferance?

philcski 07-13-2007 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
i never paid that much attention to it until I saw people talking about it on here, and yeah I'd have to agree, he seems to scratch a lot in places that you wouldn't expect a scratch. If this is all for the welfare of the horse, fine. However it seems odd that he would have that many high profile horses with issues that are discovered so late.

I know he is also pretty sensitive about weights in handicaps, and a few pounds can set him off.

Weight hardly makes a difference in racing. While it's next to impossible to quantify an exact formula, it's estimated 5 pounds = 1 length.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Frankel may scratch alot but he is a tremendous horseman who treats his horses with a great deal of care. I am not defending his insanity regarding the weights which he seems to take personally but he is not the kind of guy that would run a horse who wasn't at his best, unlike a lot of other high profile trainers out there. You can feel pretty good about betting on his horses when he actually runs them because you know they are well meant and most likely 100%.

No question about it, he's an all time great and I've loved several of his horses, which makes the scratch thing even more maddening. Nobody would care if he was scratching out with 15-1 shots but when he's 3-1, 6/5, 4-1 on the morning line with his last three it's like what are you waiting for? A walkover??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
This is highly unlikely for a few reasons. One is that horses are based in many places not just at the track they are running at so you would need an army of vets to cover them all. Secondly, a vet that has experience with a horse is much more likely to be able to diagnose issues or potential issues than a vet who is seeing a horse for the first time. Third and most importantly is that most state vets are either inexperienced or simply not very good. There is a reason that they are working long hours and being subjected to a ton of grief for about 20% of what top private practice racetrack vets make.

What is the current time a horse has to be in the barn by on raceday?

The level-of-pay issue is one that would sorely need to be addressed with my hypothetical state vet idea, of course. And I agree that you can diagnose better with a horse you know (even a neophyte like me can see issues in mine/Swap's), so why not have each horse assigned to a specific vet until they change location?

Coach Pants 07-13-2007 02:19 PM

I don't think anyone is questioning Frankel's abilities as a trainer. The problem I have with him is when he enters a horse other trainers who fear his horse will not bother and the entries will usually result in a short field. Then the guy takes his toys and goes home when he doesn't get the weight he thinks he deserves.

It's similar to the Chicago Bulls if Michael Jordan was forced to wear a fanny pack with 3 pebbles in it and he decided that he wasn't going to play tonight. It's just ridiculous and petty bullsheist and it's another in a long list of reasons why the sport is suffering.

Frankel needs to stop being a little bitch.

Sightseek 07-13-2007 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants
I don't think anyone is questioning Frankel's abilities as a trainer. The problem I have with him is when he enters a horse other trainers who fear his horse will not bother and the entries will usually result in a short field. Then the guy takes his toys and goes home when he doesn't get the weight he thinks he deserves.

It's similar to the Chicago Bulls if Michael Jordan was forced to wear a fanny pack with 3 pebbles in it and he decided that he wasn't going to play tonight. It's just ridiculous and petty bullsheist and it's another in a long list of reasons why the sport is suffering.

Frankel needs to stop being a little bitch.

But on the other side we have others hopelessly overmatching their horses and or squeezing them dry by entering them too much and breaking them down...nobody is truly perfect.

robfla 07-13-2007 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
IMO, this is the best post of the thread. :)

does he get a prize?

Sightseek 07-13-2007 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I'll bake him cookies and bring him coffee if he comes to Saratoga. Any preference Pillow?

:rolleyes:

Sightseek 07-13-2007 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Come on, that was funny.

Well the image of you in a checkered apron and cooking mitt with Pillow eagerly waiting at the dinning room table for his cookies was... :p

Cannon Shell 07-13-2007 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek
:p

I'll bake you cookies and bring coffee when I come to visit Sumwon at Saratoga...any preferance?

Any kind will be great!

Cannon Shell 07-13-2007 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
IMO, this is the best post of the thread. :)

I'm still getting the cookies though!

Cannon Shell 07-13-2007 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski



What is the current time a horse has to be in the barn by on raceday?

The level-of-pay issue is one that would sorely need to be addressed with my hypothetical state vet idea, of course. And I agree that you can diagnose better with a horse you know (even a neophyte like me can see issues in mine/Swap's), so why not have each horse assigned to a specific vet until they change location?

Usually they have to be at the track by 10am or so. But you cant ship a horse if it is legitimately sick or lame.

Your idea sounds like socialized healthcare for horses.

Coach Pants 07-13-2007 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I'll bake him cookies and bring him coffee if he comes to Saratoga. Any preference Pillow?

Frankel's Finest White Chocolate Chip

ArlJim78 07-13-2007 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski
Weight hardly makes a difference in racing. While it's next to impossible to quantify an exact formula, it's estimated 5 pounds = 1 length.

tell that to Bobby.

10 pnt move up 07-13-2007 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
IMO, this is the best post of the thread. :)

second that

philcski 07-13-2007 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
tell that to Bobby.

No kidding.
Getting assigned top weight USED to be an honor, not a reason to scratch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Usually they have to be at the track by 10am or so. But you cant ship a horse if it is legitimately sick or lame.

Your idea sounds like socialized healthcare for horses.

LOL, maybe the idea would work in Canada? :D


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