Here's the thing I don't understand. If EVERYbody [you, me, the girl selling popcorn] knows he's kind of a phony, why don't those paying these exorbitant stud fees know it too? If he loses a couple more big time races, so what? But if he ends up winning them [not that he would anyways], it can only enhance his value.

Besides, at this point in the year they CAN wait the 90 days and see what happens. Breeding season is over you schmucks!!!!!

Well, I'll miss him. I loved this horse.

If you're in this sport to make money you might as well pay a guy to kick you in the balls on a daily basis.

Now let's speculate upon where Scat Daddy will ultimately stand, and what his stud fee will be.

5 K

"The horse was scheduled to leave by van on Tuesday for Ashford Stud in Lexington, Ky., where he will most likely stand stud next year. No stud plans had been finalized as of Monday."

MILLIONS? Please tell me why this horse is going to be successful at stud? Why do we need another mediocre stallion out there? This business is becoming a farce. With all of the stallions they have over there at Ashford who is going to show up at their door and say I want to breed my mare to the slow one who beat nobody? His resume is he beat a head case, NOBIZ, and CHELOKEE, who in my opinion had a pretty good shot of winning the race (FLA Derby) with a better trip. I'd rather breed to THE GREEN MONKEY than SCAT DADDY. This is pathetic!

just what racing needs, another Mr Prospector , Northern Dancer cross at stud. he was pushed hard and soon and i wish him the best in his 2nd career.

Thoroughbred Horse Pedigree Database


SCAT DADDY (USA) dkb/br. C, 2004 DP = 10-3-11-2-0 (26) DI = 2.47 CD = 0.81 - 9 Starts, 5 Wins, 1 Places, 1 Shows Career Earnings: $1,334,300

Owner: James T. Scatuorchio & Michael Tabor
Breeder: Axel Wend
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 9 Starts: 5 - 1 - 1, $1,334,300

At 2:
Won Champagne S. (G1,8F), Sanford S.(G2,6F)
2nd Hopeful S. (G1,7F)

At 3:
Won Florida Derby (G1,9F), Fountain of Youth S. (G2,9F)
3rd Holy Bull S. (G3,8F)

Looks like a good one to breed to, to me. If you want speed and a early return on your money. I'd say it'll take $20K to get into the shed with this one.:D

I'll go out on a limb here and say $12,500.

How about tree fiddy?

This is his level...a Blue Light Special!

I'd rather breed to Kiera Knightley, but whatever floats your boat. :p

Owning horses is not a business. You may treat it as a business, you may think it is a business, but it is not a business.
And by your way of thinking most horses should be retired if they win 1st time out because running them again may decrease their value.

Eric
I disagree that his value is predicated on "hype" or "buzz". He won Grade 1 2 year old stakes and a Grade 1 Derby prep. He is by a "hot" stallion. His value is secure regardless of how many races he lost. He will probably stand for somewhere between $30-$40k. If he were to win the Travers and/or Haskell or a race like that, he would have been worth a lot more. Personally I never thought he was great but he did accomplish more than most stallions that will enter stud next year.

You are kidding right?

Also in Pletcher stable news (I wasn't about to start a thread on the Suburban, because frankly it sucks) but Harlington is out as well. No retirement - yet.

Maggi Moss would disagree with you. A bunch of other people too.

I would love to claim horses from you.

Why? You think she is making money?

There is no way that he stands for less than $25k. If the yearling markets is solid and the Sheikh Mo boycott doesn't spread, he may go as high as $40k.

To be a business you must produce a good or service. Owning horses does neither. You want to call it an investment? Fine. But a business? Try telling the IRS that it is a business. Hell, they dont even want to label owning horses as an investment.

Great Inteview
 

with Maggie Moss on the Roger Stein show Sunday , a great listen:

http://www.rogerstein.com/radio/archive2.asp

Chuck, don't get me wrong -- the colt isn't a nobody. However, I just don't think he was that good of a colt. The talk about him being at or very near the head of the class, early on, seemed to be a bit of overhype to me. G1's without question cannot be dismissed.

Winning the Travers, to me is a huge "if" and although it may be rhetorical, I think it was more probable that he didn't win than possible he did. I think his value is maxed out right now, unless he went on to win something else of substance, and in order to maintain that value, he certainly can't afford to get beat where he would be a strong favorite. Winning a race like that doesn't add to value, but losing one can diminish value.

The hype I refer to is merely the fact that I think they have to build him up to command and fill a book at the $40k price range -- and personally, I think that's too high. I am not a pedigree expert or bloodstock agent, but I think $30k might be more like it -- speaking from a market perspective -- and I am not sure he fills a book at that level (legitimately I mean, LOL). At $30k, or $40k, personally, I want to breed to one hell of a horse (with everything else considered) -- and to me, he's just not "that" kind of horse.

I see your points and I think he'll be a nice their stallion somewhere, relatively speaking get some nice mares, etc. I just feel that value is maxed now -- more downside than up. I guess we'll never know, LOL.

Eric

Eric
I am not saying that I like the horse as a racehorse or a stallion prospect. But compare him to horses with similar race records and pedigrees and you get Lion Heart and First Samurai. I'm not trying to argue that he is as good or bad as these horses but they have similar credentials and I believe LH is 25k and FS is 40. Both got very sizable books.
You can't take away his positives and I don't think there is anyone, breeders included who thought he was a super horse. But IF he were to have won a big race or 2 in the fall, his stud fee (since his value is immaterial being Coolmore owned) would have risen. And if he had lost a couple, it would still be where it will be.

he does have a good resume. compare him to Sharp Humor at $12.5k i believe and one can see him going for the $30-$40k range initially...he was near the top of his class before his foot problems surfaced prior to the Derby.

The only thing good about Scat Daddy is that he is a pretty well formed Johannesburg.
He isn't one of the smallish Johannesburgs. At least he has some good size and is a pretty nice animal.

But what are you paying for?
somewhat precocious , versatile and has moderate speed.

Nice horse for the cheaper races.


Even Johannesburg is way overrated as a sire of classic distance dirt runners.

There is a market for these animals and you basically have to breed and sell a Scat Daddy, but I am not saying they are worth market value.

he is closely inbred to Mr Prospector, 2x3 and i guess you got the good and the bad with that mating.

Here's the difference... Lion Heart actually ran a few fast races in his career... Scat Daddy never did. I'd go to Lion Heart in a flash over Scat Daddy at the same price.

Excellent point.

Eric

now that was funny.:)

Lion Heart commands $25k...

Maybe I just really, really didn't like Lion Heart but there's no way I'd pay 25k or even half of that to be bred to him. He found a way to lose the Blue Grass despite being on the golden rail, he won a watered-down Haskell while allowed to cruise on the front end then was exposed against real horses once again in the Travers. Even harder to believe First Samurai goes for 15k more than him. Sorry folks, if FS goes for 40k, Scat Daddy has to be good for 50k.

NT

First Sam filled his book at that price, and you're talking apples and oranges when you compare their pedigrees.

Not sure what Giant's Causeway goes for now, but Johannesburg is at 65k. I highly doubt that Scat Daddy will be anywhere near that amount.

glad to hear it.

goodness knows we don't have enough horses of his calibre at stud already.:rolleyes:

that high?!


i'm in the wrong business. that just seems high to me...crazy crazy

It is a little more complicated than that

Well actually you breed a mare to the stallion, you dont actually get bred yourself... though I'm sure that some farms may make special considerations....

Personally, I hit the PK4 when he won the Champagne and I bet him heavily when he won the FOY. Thanks to my buddy Joel Cunningham, who touted him before he made his 1st start. Joel stated that he could drag the starting gate and still win. I remember Oracle 80 stating that another horse had a chance. Well, Scat Daddy won for fun in the slop and had a very nice career. I cashed over $3K in tickets, so I personally sad to see him retired. Go Scat Daddy Go.

I did not say it makes sense but look where stud fees are.