First of all, I never said any of that ( most notably I would never forget the name of Risen Star's trainer ). However, the highlighted portion of your post is a hoot.

Thanks again.

Kristin Mulhall is also another decent female trainer. Janine Sahadi wasn't too shabby either. Don't know what happened to her.

uh, far be it from me to chirp in being a novice and all but I don't think Andy needs this kind of jazz. Ever buy a DRF? His picture is in it almost every day in that little full page ad (youbet). Credentials speak louder then your jazz, instead of cutting someone down why not have a decent exchange or just let it be?

I like Carla Gaines, in addition to the others mentioned.
Also Paula Capestro and recently Kristin Mulhal.

you people really think the gender of the trainer has any impact whatsoever?

you people? YOU PEOPLE??!?!?! WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY YOU PEOPLE!?!?!?

it does when you buy 3 horses for a minimum amount of money and make all 3 of them run that makes you great and all 3 have done well. from the same horse sale

she has made in excess of $5 million dollars this year in her pocket pure profit, how could that be disapointing in any way?

But he messed up badly with Star!

I think you are failing to see the major disconnect here. Jamie Sanders is not a great trainer, nor is she in the "elite" company so to speak. She is a rookie trainer on her own, and has some credentials having worked for Nick Zito -- now, there is a great trainer. Jamie Sanders doesn't have people banging down her door, not because she is a woman, but because she is new and unproven. And, so far her #'s -- the #'s people, who know what they are looking at -- are not that good. It is well known and well accpeted that she shoots very low #'s. She has done very well -- financially -- on this one colt, but that doesn't get you the automatic entry into the "great trainer" club or the "elite" company. Check back in another 10 years or so. Buying a horse for $9k and earning $500k, and having the colt be worth a few million doesn't make you a great trainer.

In addition, it is also fairly well known that she often doesn't place her horses well. That is the reputation she is developing on the backstretch. You want to attract owners as a new, rookie, just going on your own trainer -- it's very simple . . . win races!!!

Eric

i am not her, but that horse is worth at least 7 or 8 million dollars after that race yesterday and she owns a big piece of him.
if you only knew how hard it was to win a race,,,any race even in arizona or new mexico,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it is all about the horses the trainer,jockey have less than 3% of what happens actually im giving the jockey and trainer to much credit,,,btw the trainers and jockeys will tell you the same thing ,,,every one of them

i give her the ike turner award for that bad dew .."girl git yo wig togetha":D

Speaks to my earlier points!
Again, she a new trainer, certainly not great...not experienced (as trainer) enough yet to really be fairly evaluated. What she does have is experience working for some great trainers...time will tell with her career.

FYI, Roussel hasn't trained since like 6 years ago, when he hired his assistant Lara Van Deren to take over. They don't run nearly the numbers they used to

why would you say that nick zito is a great horse trainer? he let jamie sanders train his horses for years then he had the guy training his horses who took over the whittny horses...nick zito hasnt trained any horses in years. you have to be near the horses to train them, same with baffert,lukas etc...pletcher is to some degree still hands on but aint a man in the world who can train more than 20 horses at the same time,,,steve asmussen doesnt even go to the barn but once a week, so who is training those horses. john ward hasnt touched a horse outside of the paddock in years,,,the list goes on and on,,,these guys are business men not horse trainers,,,jamie sanders is still a horse trainer, and its 99% horse and 1% luck the trainer and everything else have no meaning

So why do you keep praising her for what she did with Teuf?

Thank you.....SERIOUSLY. Thank you for that pre-Sopranos laugh....

funny i personally saw john ward and mrs ward.. nick zito ,lukas in saratoga most mornings..training them..and abrau sp is another stellar record..whitny should have given them to anyone else....your argument is weak and assman was on time out most of the year blasi was in fact all around too

Who would you rather have train your horse?

Helen Pitts or Jaime Sanders?

Conversation over...

Thanks for the laughs Slewpy, you truely are a comic genius!

OK, now you are truly entertaining me, LOL. Pardon me interrupting open mike night. Carry on.

Eric

because she gets on the horse and gallops him, same thing she did on all those zito horses...but it has little to do with horse trainers they all do almost the exact same thing with thier horses every day,,,compare the training of lets say hard spun and street sense leading up to the derby....both galloped about a mile and a half every day then every 6th day or so they breezed 5/8ths of a mile,,,tell me what the difference is between horse trainers? btw at buelah park the horses gallop about a mile and a half every day then about every 6 days they breeze 5/8ths of a mile,,,so what does robert frankel do any different than some guy at remington park do? nothing as far as i can tell. the biggest difference i have encountered working for the so called elite trainers and in the minor leagues is veterinarians. its not the only difference because the trainers absolutely require that all the small things are done properly for the good horses and in the minor leagues they kinda say fock it more,,,but all that really doesnt make much difference its all about the horses constitution, a good horse will run well regardless of the trainer not vice a versa. swaps was ridden as a trail horse in the off season as was all the rex ellsworth horses in the 50s and 60s,,,,,i want someone to tell me or show me the difference in what these trainers do in the daily routine? i worked at many race tracks including saratoga for instance,,,what i saw day in day out is every trainer doing almost the exact same thing with thier horses whether it be biancone,mott,pletcher, you name the trainer,,,enlighten me what does one trainer do that another doesnt that makes success? the wild card from what ive seen is the veterinarian and even those guys all have the same stuff,,,so whats the difference in some trainer at beulah and at saratoga? i am convinced its the difference in the feeding program, the trainers at saratoga are feeding better horses than the trainers at buelah....seriously enlighten me?

whos barn were you in to see if they were training or doing something with the horses? or did you see them around , watching works, talking to the owners? because if you saw them traning horses then you had to be in the barn, when you watched these guys train what types of equipment did they have with them? i mean horses dont understand sign language as far as i know, did those guys have whips with them? or were they just hanging around?
thats funny i worked for one of the trainers you mentioned at saratoga year before last and that trainer didnt even come to the barn the 1st 2 weeks i worked there, and then he came in to saddle a horse for a stakes race, and that morning he sat in the office all but about 1 hour, then he left at about 8:30 and never came back, he saddled the horse in the paddock, the horse ran 3rd, he left and didnt come back to saratoga until a week later to sadle another horse in a stakes race........during the saratoga sales which last for about 8 days or so. guys like lukas, ward(his wife is in charge)zito spend the whole day at the sale sociallizing,,,so during those 8 days or so who is training those horses? btw i am not saying that these horses arent getting well cared for,,,but it sure as hell aint by steve assmussen when he is in dallas and the horses are in ny,,,he aint training nothin but people he hasnt trained a horse in years that cant be done on the telephone,,,,baffert went to the derby and mentioned that he had been there for 4 days,,,,he didnt have a horse in the derby did he? so who was training those horses?OH AND BY THE WAY, NONE OF THESE GUYS ARE HORSE TRAINERS, they are horse conditioners, duh!!!!! train a horse to run? they are like personal trainers to people, a horse trainer teaches horses how to do things, todd pletcher isnt physically training those horses to do anything, he is tellin the gallop boys what to do and the rest of his time at the barn(all while talking on the cell phone) is spent with veterinarins,,,,,a guy like pletcher spends the vast majority of his time on the phone i bettcha that guy is on the phone 12 hours everyday and the other 9 hours he is awake he is spending with owners scmuzzing them,,,,so tell me which horse he trains? he manages

i took a breath,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Your ideas are intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

All I know is that if you eliminate betting on 2% trainers, you will save yourself a lot of money.

laugh if you will...but its true,,,the last place you can find wayne lukas is at the barn where the horses are. same with almost all these guys,,,think about it someone says they see all these trainers around? what are they around? not horses because if you are seeing them, if they arent like making some horse jog in a circle while they hold the rope, or have them standing with only one front foot on the ground and counting with the other foot on command(like trigger, now the guy that taught him to count, thats a horse trainer) seriously i really wanna know what these trainers do so differently...its like some trainer puts blinkers on a horse and he wins, WTF
does that make him a genious,,,ill tell ya what , lets say we make anybody that reads the form a horse trainer for a day, the groom asks senor you want blinkers today? i say yep, or maybe i say nope lets try without them and see if the horse does better,,,,now that is barnam and bailey like training,i mean the guys that make lions and tigers jump through burning hoops while some bimbo blond is swinging on a trapeze above that trainers head who is in with those lions and tigers, that is not training , deciding if the horse should have blinkers, thats real training . race horse trainer? thats an oxymoron, thats like a guy that trains dogs to bark.

I think I will wait for the movie.

unless you bet them when they win. because i have made way way way more money betting on a 2% trainer that i knew was gonna win on a certain day than i have betting on those 15% guys that just grind your money up day in day out,,,jamie sanders is every bit, no a better horse trainer than todd pletcher, but pletcher is a way way better business person, thus he gets the horses she dont, so she bought some cheap ones and got a little lucky,give her a bunch of horses that cost $300k+ she will become a much better trainer, but it has to also be managed
i dont have a clue about that part of her operation. she watched(talkedonthe phone) zito every day for like 10 years, pretty much ran the operation, thats as per him,,,i wanna know what secrets he kept from her during that time? now she was there all the time he wasnt so was he consulting with a hypnotist that could channel his win % to 20%,,,i mean what is it that he was doing while she worked for him that she isnt doing now?

your are right they do have asst..and they dont shovel ****..that was your gig right..they need good clients...so they go to the sales in the aft..in the morning they were there telling the asst and the exercise riders what to do..wtf..are you retarded..

Things I think I am learning in this thread....

1 ) Teuflesburg's value increased from 5 million to 7 to 8 million while I was at dinner and watching " The Sopranos "

2 ) Nick Zito does not have anything to do with training his horses

3 ) 2% trainers can be " elite " trainers

4 ) Jamie Sanders is a better trainer than Todd Pletcher

5 ) Reynaldo Abreu and Jamie Sanders used to train Nick Zito's horses

Things I thought I knew but apparently was confused about

1 ) Teuflesberg is not worth 5 million dollars

2 ) a horse's value does not increase in two hours without races being run

3 ) Nick Zito is in the Hall of Fame

4 ) Jamie Sanders and Reynaldo Abreu have not yet been inducted in the Hall of Fame ( though personally I wish them the best of luck )

5 ) Nick's win percentage seems to be reasonably similar without those two trainers training his horses.

6 ) There would be some sort of significant resolution in the supposed final episode of " The Sopranos. "

Yeah you're right. Shug, Nick, Bobby Frankel are all in the same boat as smaller trainers, they all do the same thing. Please...give me a break. I just find it amazing that they all started out the same, yet these trainers elevated themselves from hotwalkers, assistants, etc. to what they are today. No one handed them ****- they earned it.

Right??? What the hell was with that???? Just when I was giving that show credit, POOF...Goes up in smoke

I guess we'll just have to wait for the Sopranos movie. That was a very odd ending- just not what I expected.

You honestly have to be trying to make every person on this board laugh. No way you can be this ignorant. That or you just may really be Jaime Sanders. ;)