I agree, I suppose I'm just not certain he wouldn't be effective at 7fs or maybe a mile. More than that and/or a 2nd turn- no way.

NT

I do not have the luxury that some do of repeating unfounded rumors and I never repeat things I know in confidence.

Other than the Cigar Mile and King's Bishop, I doubt there is really a Grade 1 left for Circular Quay to win, and considering Coolmore's operation, with breeding dollars of the utmost importance, I don't see why they would risk devaluing a horse who has very little upside potential.

They took a shot in the Preakness, as it was really the only choice other than the Met Mile ( where he may well have been competitive ), in an attempt to increase his value. Sure, they can throw him in the Belmont and pray, but otherwise I doubt they will risk exposing him anymore.

I respect your discretion and guarantee the only "industry insider" information I'm ever privy to is who Travis Stone likes in the PK4.

Considering CQ has had a rather poor year in terms of adding to his value it would make perfect sense to retire him. I suppose they could point to the King's Bishop, using the logic that he could get a fast pace and that he knows how to pick up the pieces when a race falls apart.

The Belmont would be a horrendous spot for him- of that I'm quite sure.

NT

I can say that I spent a little time with Sun King on Wednesday and he's plenty pissed at the disrespect King Glorious has shown him on the board. He didn't say that explicitely but I felt it.

If Sun King's pissed and let you know and C P West tried to bite you then I'm going to bet every Nick Zito 2YO debuting soon all the way through Saratoga. A feisty, hot barn is dangerous.

NT

They probably sensed that I was yet another lame horseplayer bothering people who work hard for a living.

Their decision to skip the Wood (assuming he truly was capable of running there) keeps looking more and more foolish everyday. He would have only had to outclose Sightseeing and he'd be a G1 winner at 2 and 3 and a wet dream for Coolmore as a stallion.

If he hadn't run in the Preakness you would have scoffed at anyone who suggested he wouldn't have outclosed CP West....so why is it a fait accompli that he would have gotten by Sightseeing, much less NoBiz, and won the Wood?

I think his best races will come in elongated sprints.

He'd have run much better than most people think in the Met Mile.

I also have some doubts he'd have won the Wood.

No guarantee at all but I doubt he was ever going to find another easier G1 this year than that. Skipping it was foolish. CP West ran a very nice race in the Preakness.

CP West ran a terrific race in the Preakness and considering his trip, and premature move along with Hard Spun, I imagine had Circular Quay skipped the race his dwindling group of supporters would have claimed he would have been no worse than third.

I honestly think there is a very good chance he would have won the Met Mile and said so before the race.

Well, you are totally off if you think I'm in that group. I hate the horse but see a little Jazil in him in terms of rollling out 24-25 fractions that could make him as likely as anybody if Curlin makes an early move or comes up flat in the Belmont.

Hate?

I was just making an analogy relative to saying " all he had to do was get by Sightseeing " in order to win the Wood in terms of the Preakness.

Jazil showed an affinity for getting a distance and could roll at the end of longer races. Circular Quay has pretty much proven the opposite. He wants less ground....not more.

In the relative sense. I don't like Coolmore at all, I find the trainer very hard to root for, and I think he's been vastly overrated off a dream setup in the Hopeful. Do I truly hate him? Of course not. On a comparitive scale of my feelings toward horses with love and hate being the extremes then he falls on the hate end. A scale of like and don't like just seems far too mild to express your opinions.

I hear ya. I'm not a fan of Circular Quay either but mostly because of undeserved accolades placed on him. To me he has never run a particularly good race and all his accomplishments were when he was the beneficiary of perfect setups. To me he has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that while a talented horse he is nowhere near as good as some claimed early in his career. Frankly, in his two biggest races he moved right with the eventual winner, Street Sense both times, and got drowned.

I guess I would say I have " hated his chances " in many races......not him. I am, however, sorry that he has not run in more appropriate spots as I am at least curious as to how he would have done.

I don't see him as being anywhere in the league of Sun King or Silver Wagon so considering they couldn't close and get it done in the Met Mile I don't think he would have been anywhere close. In the Wood I think there was a reasonable chance he could have won. To skip that for the Derby and Preakness where he was overmatched was a foolish decision in my opinion.

Sun King's performance had a lot to do with sending a closer inside of horses, and down on a dead fence, and Silver Wagon simply didn't show up.

Well considering Circular Quay has a history of finding excuses I have a tough time imagining he could have shown up on Met Mile Day and found a dream trip.

I'm not so sure he'd have needed a dream trip to be in the hunt with that field.

All he really had to do was have a jockey that had a brain.

I'm not saying I feel strongly that he would have won but I think he might have.

If I hadn't recorded over my Preakness coverage in a fit of the grumps, I'd go check but I swear, it seems like someone from his camp uttered the words...possibly Larry Jones referring to Mario's ride. Eh, it's a moot point to figure out how Pino could ride him any differently anyway. Let's see what GG can do. Out of curiosity, what would you say is Garrett's most obvious attribute? Some have serious clocks in their heads, some eat up strategy, others are rail huggers or outside run fanciers, some are endowed with the "special" knowledge that the horse is supposed to run in a counterclockwise direction... GG's nickname isn't Garrett "Likes to go around horses even if it's in the 10 path on the turn" Gomez or anything right?

I don't pay much attention to Gomez. He seems patient and he rides a lot of likely winners. I can understand the switch from Pino but Pino has done absolutely nothing wrong on Hard Spun. He would have finished no better than he has in any of his races with Gomez as opposed to Pino.

The only ride I would question was the one in the Southwest, but that was probably more based on instructions from the trainer than any tactical riding error.

I agree but that one seemed more circumstantial. In retrospect they should have sent him as that was probably their only viable alternative.

I couldn't possibly disagree more and this kind of micro-overanalysis has no relevance in real life racing situations.

You've got him splitting horses as they " begin to backpeddle. " Come on....stop! You're killing me.

He rode the horse correctly...he sat off the silly duel and went by them as they stopped and another horse was coming to his flank. That's how you ride.

Exactly. LOL

:p

Yeah, but they ran 4 mile heats back then

Pino taking any heat for the ride in the Belmont is crazy. What did he do wrong? He would have been wrong to wing out there with the 2 pacesetters. He would have been wrong to wait until Curlin and Street Sense rolled up to his hip. Any ride besides the ride he gave was wrong. What he did was ride a winning race on a horse who wasnt good enough to win.

The Belmont hasn't been run yet.

You know what I mean

It's calling " dancing with the girl that brought you there " and Pino's date was plenty pretty but just not pretty enough.

How often has Pino ridden at Belmont? Big Sandy is a course apart and out of towners can get fooled by the length of the turns into moving prematurely. Since Pino already has one possible misjudgment of this sort on this horse hanging over him, a switch to a jock with more experience on the course might have been seemed to be the one small edge that could put them in winner's circle. Hard Spun doesn't have his classic win yet.