a recap of Utopia's win
http://nyra.com/belmont/stories/Westchester.html

Utopia isnt much. Then again it doesnt take much to beat Sun King and Political Farce. This year's Met Mile is in trouble if Sun King is the most accomplished horse going.

Yeah, I guess winning a G2 last year and being 2nd in two G1s (by a nostril to Invasor, no less) is just pathetic.
Of course I understand people do tend to trash Sun King as if it's a chemical dependency-thing, but I don't get it.

Hes a mediocre horse and 2nd only counts in horseshoes. each of his 2nd place finishes in grade 1's were hang jobs. he caught Invasor and Silver Train off their games just a bit and still couldnt take advantage of that.

I like that.....many pies.

I can see you feel the need to give me a lesson in how to watch a race,
sadly for you,
I don't.
I am thankful there's a mediocre horse like Sun King around who keeps running competitively in good spots so that fans like me can watch his poor efforts and conclude otherwise.

I didnt say they were poor efforts, they were dapper dandies. but to lose both of those races signals something. He dont like to win and winning is all that great horses get remembered by, not close 2nd place finishes. He'll catch a field he can beat sooner or later, frankly I thought he was going to destroy that field last week. Dont give me the layoff BS, because Utopia was coming off a greater one.

You get more laughable with every post.

Sun King is a mediocre horse? I think he is a fine horse, no superstar, but that dosen't make him mediocre. As Bystander said, he has more then held his own against great competition.

Then you also say Utopia is not much of a horse. I guess winning the Grade 2Goldolphin Mile, and other stakes all over the world, including a Grade 3 in his first start in the States means jack! Maybe his next start should be in a $5k open claiming event?

You have to be a joke.

So according to you, we should all forget Alydar?

Please keep making me laugh, its helping to break up the work day.

Who claimed he was great? And who said anything about a layoff? You're projecting someone else's excuses, I guess I should just get back to reading about the big "rail fix" in the Derby.

and g1 winners at 2,3,4 and 5 arent much either..

Okay I just watched Sun Kings glory race, where he won the Commonwealth at Keeneland running down Kazoo. I will upgrade to good because that my friends was an awesome performance.

Ugh... perhaps I can enlighten you on what 'hanging' means. Hanging is when the horse is in front and just stops trying... how can Sun King be a hanger in his two seconds when he wasn't leading to begin with? He was closing... tough to hang like that.

Apparently, according to the School of Skip Away.

I think that is one of those "special" schools.

It was as much for me as it was for you, ya know.

Hanging to me is also when a horse refuses to pass another one. Not saying that Sun King has done that, but I don't think hanging is just getting to the front and easing up.

Hanging to me is also when a horse refuses to pass another one. Not saying that Sun King has done that, but I don't think hanging is just getting to the front and easing up.

Yes. Since when did you have to be on the lead to hang? Perfect Drift is one of the most notorious hangers of all time and many of his near misses were when he was trying to pass a tiring horse, my favorite was when he couldnt get by Peace Rules at Saratoga!

Actually he blew by Peace Rules at Saratoga and hung to Roses in May who finished second to Ghostzapper in the BC Classic.

But, hey, we're not really sticking to the truth here anyway.

The accomplishments of Utopia that you mention were in Japan. While I don't want to denigrade his abilities, until he proves something in unrestricted races over here I will withhold my judgements. Perhaps I was a bit harsh on him but his win in the Westchester was accomplished under absolutely ideal circumstances. Perhaps I will be wrong, and he will prove a fine animal over here, but I'll take a wait and see approach.

I still think...Sun King would be a great horse - sprinting! He a ran bang-up race in last year's Met Mile and is probably pointing to that race again. But, he would be a bigger force going the sprint route to B.C. His best race yet was at Keeneland last spring sprinting. With the sprinting ranks always wide-open, his back-class would stickout in the Sprint. Nick are you listening....

I am worried that Sun King just doesnt know how to win. He runs very competitive races but for some reason he doesnt seem to cross the wire first. I believe his last win was the Commonwealth at Keeneland. So I guess he is 1 for his last 8 or 9 races.

Too bad the BC sprint isn't 7 panels...if the BC mile is a mile and 70, why can't this year's sprint be 7! :D

Might Lawyer Ron race?

I think You and I might have been done racing by that point... It was that very fast Dutrow sprinter Lite The Fuse and Afternoon Deelites that DH'ed for the place...

Exacta in the MET Mile

Chatain 7/2
Lawyer Ron 4/1

book it!!!


******If Angel "I love to scratch more than Robert Frankel" Penna actually runs

It's hard to believe he would have beaten Invasor last year---if he hadn't done his best impersonation of Perfect Drift or Balletto....although, he's shown a good deal of hang in many other races.

When you think of last years Whitney Handicap, you think of the old Chinese Proverb "three smelly tailors can defeat one Zhuge Liang."

Perhaps Invasor hasn't yet matched the unparalleled brillance that the warlord stratigist displayed in 3rd century China....

But one smelly jockey and two pretty decent horses weren't quite enough to defeat one Invasor last summer.

The premature inside move by Jara..to engage Flower Alley early, combined with eye-balling a Travers winner through 5f's in a stressful midrace battle, combined with having a fresh Sun King ready to mop up the lone survivor of that battle...compounded to give Invasor a legit excuse had he lost...but to his credit, he desperately fought off Sun King.

Here's a great picture of them off the turn, eye-ball to eye-ball, both with ears pinned...Flower Alley leaning on him a little, about to finally crack...and have horses like We Can Seek and West Virgina blow past him in the very late stages. Sun King's ready to pounce.

Out of curiosity DrugS, how long are you going to keeping harping on the imaginary bad ride on Flower Alley? While obviously he didn't enjoy the cleverest of trips, he got absolutely drowned in the race, as well as his two subsequent efforts. Clearly it wasn't the trip that did him in. Horses get less than clever rides all the time....do you bet all these horses back even when they don't run a step?

You act as though it was Flower Alley's poorly timed ride in the Whitney that was responsible for his complete disintegration. Considering the subsequent events it was an inconsequential blip on his doomed career.

Flower Alley had a perfect ride in the Whitney

The " internet " for " I can't defend my position. "

Passive aggressive doesn't suit you.

While the whole point of my post was to drop the name Zhuge Liang....as I had to try and top my Gordon Bitner Hinckley homerun of a few days ago...I think you misunderstood everything I said about the race---and maybe have been saying all-along.

It was Jara who gave the bad ride--when he moved prematurely to engage Flower Alley....the only thing that compromised FA at all, is that he was eye-balling a good horse for a long time, and that led to him quiting badly late. He'd have finished better had Jara ridden the race correctly, though, maybe or maybe not managing a 3rd place finish.

While Flower Alley did run two horrible races after that....I still believe he and Invasor were both somewhat compromised by being hooked up for so long.

Please link me to where I said FA got a bad ride....

The next thing I know...you will be telling me that I thought Street Sense got a horrible ride in the Derby.

Do you really think it mattered?

You're opinion on the Derby was formulated before it was run.

If Street Sense won it was because of a seeming perfect trip and if he lost it was because he was the phony you claimed he was. Yawn.

Your


I really hope you don't believe that. If you do....I take great offense to that suggestion.

You've offered nothing to suggest otherwise.

The perfect ride by JRV would have been to his benefit had Jara not moved prematurely to eye-ball him.

Had FA not been in an excellent early position...does Jara show the bad judgement, and move very early to negate the other joint-favorite from having a very good trip?

You deny that Street Sense had a perfect setup/trip?

In this case, what does it matter? He MADE the trip. Most horses would have quit or checked rather than move through the cracks he did.

I challenge you to reorder the Derby field based on if so-and-so had gotten a better trip. If I hear Curlin had a bad trip once again I'll puke. It didn't matter, he wasn't finishing in the exacta either way.