So what is your conclusion? That Time Squared could have run a race comparable to Rathor's if he just would have had the pace to run into?
I don't care what the pace is you're not going to move the final time up four seconds.

Its impressive to close into a slow pace and end up with a reasonably fast overall time. But if you close into a slow pace and its won in a slow time its just a slow race.

Not necessarily, horses can go out awfully slow and still be impressive if they finish strongly. Saving time on the front end does not translate into an equally fast finish.

A good example: The 1978 Belmont Stakes.

How many lengths did this horse make up in the final 2 1/2 furloughs??

Horses can go out slow and finish strongly and look impressive, yes. But how impressive they look depends in large part on who they are running against.

We were talking specifically about Time Squared and how his 8.5 furlong winning time was the slowest of three run at the distance last friday. Not only did the allowance horses run nearly four seconds faster, another group of maidens ran about 1.5 seconds faster.

However everyone seems most excited about Time Squared's race because he closed ground. I just feel that this horse will have no solution when facing horses that have proven that they can run fast early, middle, and late.

Wonder if he could do the same on a real dirt surface against the same bunch?

With his running style my guess is that his best form will be on poly.
I also think that this factored in to the decision to run him in the Blue Grass. That and the wicked success that Biancone/Leparoux have on the poly.
With all the winners they have out there they probably feel really confident about now with whatever they send out.

What a horrible betting race. So sick of these cowards ducking and dodging every race. Props to Biancone for actually running his horse off a short rest.

My conclusion is that Time Squared won a slow race; I don't have enough data to tell whether he is a slow horse, especially the way the race was run.

Once the ones in front had gone 6f in 1:15, there was no way that TS could have recorded a fast time for the race - he would have had to run 2.5f in 26seconds or so to match Rathor's time (27 seconds if he had been on the lead, which he wasn't by any means).

Yeah, I would like to know more about the race before writing this horse off. Someone said he ran green in the lane.Did anyone see the race? Looks like he can close...Besides you dont have to find a winner, only a horse that can hit the board that no one else knows about.

DONT BOTHER HE IS ALWAYS CORRECT....ALWAYS

You're finally catching on. good

That's one thing you can always count on Biancone for. Dude's got guts.

did anyone take note that stew elliot, teuflesbergs regular rider, will NOT be going to keeneland? other commitments at oaklawn prevent him from going....apparently he doesn't think teuf is his derby horse!

D, do you think that was his call or Jamie's call? Does he have another derby contender that I'm not aware of? :confused:

As much as I love Teuflesberg, I just can't see him stretching out to win at 10 panels, but I can't see Stewart having a better candidate either. LOL

You can get any horses works at DRF. Click on "Entries" then "Workout Search" Then go from there. It's a very useful tool.

i doubt he has another contender. from what i read, elliott said he couldn't make it-sounded like his call to me, but no doubt if he thought the horse was a keeper, he would wiggle out of the oaklawn gigs.

You would think he'd want to ride in the Derby regardless...

he got the ultimate ride in the derby a couple years ago--maybe he doesn't want to go back with a horse with little chance?

I guess so... just doesn't seem typical for a jock, does it? LOL

I did... he closed like a wild turf horse on the outside. Just blew by the whole field in one pole. It was impressive, for a maiden win- and as Pillow Pants said, kudos to Biancone for taking a shot- but the field he caught was really weak for your typical Keeneland MSW and I'd be shocked if he could duplicate it with not just one but TWO super solid choices in here.

Wow. You wanna see a racehorse in a perfect workout, turn on Street Sense and watch him explode when the rider gives the cue. Didn't even seem to work hard and he went :58.2!!!

I'm actually rooting against him in the Blue Grass so I get a better price on Derby Day.

Sign me up for that club!!!

I actually wrote about that very same thing on my blog right after the Juvenile. A loss here adds a few points on Derby Day, especially if it's to Great Hunter!

Teuflesburg
 

I was looking at the PPs for this race and have to wonder when Teuflesburg is going to get passed. I'm going to include him in my exotics and believe it or not - actually leave him in the 1st position on a couple.

Maybe he likes cold weather?

the answer is whenever Calvin decides its time.

You thinking rail job? or center of the track?

I like Dominican or Zanjero to spring the upset. . . Teuflesburg isn't good enough, isn't a router, and will be hurt by the KEE bias. . . Street Sense won't be fully cranked and I'm not convinced yet that the Tampa race didn't take something out of him- that fast work won't exactly help that cause either. .. Great Hunter loves the KEE poly but O'Neill's derby horses have been a disappointment in recent weeks. . .

That makes sense. I don't have too much disagreement with you. I just think that Teuflesberg will be in front and if they wait until the stretch to pass him he could hang on for a piece. Your knocks on Street Sense and Great Hunter help my case. Track bias... eh I have noticed the majority of 'em don't wire but there are exceptions. The longer the race the longer Teuflesberg will be up there. Unless they try new tactics like Stormello for crying out loud.

I picture Great Hunter going around first then followed by Street Sense and Zanjero. Dominican is a very credible but I will be surprised if you can keep the two favorites out of the exacta. :(

Chuck was in rare form last night... LOL

So dont bet it. Why do people feel the need to bet Derby preps? Especially when it is not necessarily clear what a trainer's intent is for a particular prep, and how fit a horse may acutally be when the plan has been built for a future race.

I think its pretty clear these races are not built to cater to the betting public. I like watching them. That being said the Arkansas Derby should represent some opportunity, especially if the track is a little off.

Quit putting words in my mouth so you can have license to make a point that doesn't need to be made. I'm not betting it, didn't say I was betting it, gfy.

LMAO

Jezuztapdancingchrist... someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. :eek:

Yeah something about that post rubbed me the wrong way. Like these preps are for watching, not for betting. It's like he's track management.

Couldn't help myself, Pillow. LOL :D

Did I type you were betting it ya crab? You said it was a horrible betting race. I said so dont bet it. You complain about trainers not having balls for your service. To make a race bettable for you.

How was work yesterday? Hope you feel better later in the day. Have a great day and a better tomorrow.

Well i'm not you so that's a positive. Have fun trolling someone else, assholeface.

Ouch.

That was so mean and well thought out.
Lesson learned. Dont challenge Pillow the WordSmith.
Put me on your ignore list. Please.

Why don't you put me on your ignore list? I made a legit point and you just want to be ridiculous and play devil's advocate. Just like the talk about the imaginary degenerate with his family at the track...it was so what if and off the wall it was ridiculous.

These races like the Bluegrass are supposed to be competitive betting races with a decent sized field. It isn't...the premier race at Keeneland is a snoozefest that offers no value. A glorified match race. The sport can't survive with races that aren't bettable. Your point of just watching the race and shutting up about it is RIDICULOUS.

Now we are getting back to legit. There are tons of races that are better betting races. I think the frustration is that these are big races, the lead up to possibly the world's most important race. And I am very interested in them. So big race, I wanna have a bet because I have been watching these guys closely and have an opinion. Except they are not bettable. I understand that frustration.
So I would recommend the Arkansas. I think if the track is off, Curlin is vulnerable. He is on the inside. I think he will get lots of mud in his face (with the way he starts) which he has never experienced. The problem as always is who do you like here. So now I quit as this is a Bluegrass thread.