Oracle, you are a nice guy, and very knowledgable, but don't go overboard like I did yesterday. The Cunningham guy writes good stuff. I am not the track veteran, but every trainer I have ever met says f u. Who cares? I doubt pletcher would be bothered. The one time I met him he seemed like a guy that doesn't get too worked up.

not the first time i've seen someone post a little tidbit about someone else on the track, or anyone else. so why does this guy get a hammer between his eyes? i don't see the big deal in what he put up--so todd pletcher said eff u. so did dick cheney on the senate floor. whoopie. i wouldn't call being on the track in private either.

BR,
Its not particularly polite to post that stuff. he was on his pony in the morning in the alleged story, not in front of the public.
Anybody here who hasnt blown their cool and cursed someone out, acted up after a few beers, doen soemthing stupid? Glad noone is posting about any of us like that. And I'm sure Joel has never done anything like that, Right Joel?
This guy isnt real bright, waht he is insecure with a chip on his shoulder. Why bring that story up about Todd? Especially when we dont know all the facts. Great, try and bash the personna of a guy who is the epitome of the image we need in racing from its participants. Polite and intelligent and accomodating and gracious.
Nyers don't like rats, we never have and we never will.

And here is the question you really have to ask yourself. Would Joel be so brave as to say what he said here to Todd's face? I highly doubt it.

but for that matter, i doubt many here would say the things they post to peoples' faces....i'd imagine there would be a WHOLE lotta crawfishing going on!

I guess you have your opinion, but sounds like typical chat room stuff to me. I have a feeling he could say whatever he wanted to Pletcher and Pletcher wouldn't care.

Never said that he deserved respect, but Pletcher was way out of line there...I'm sure he was probably having a bad morning or something, but to turn to a VP at the track you are on and shout "F U" in front of several of racing fans out for Dawn at the Downs was not cool, classy or acceptable - even for a ragged NYer (he's a Dallas boy anyway so don't try to claim)..

Bold ruler,
Caddies don't rat about what is said on the course, clubhouse guys dont rat about what is said in the locker room after the game. racetrack guys dont rat out f bombs or tantrums about other racetrack guys. Its like a code, at least in the civilized state of Ny it is, how many stories like that do you think guys like Blckthroatedwind or I have like that about hall of famers? Hundreds, but you won't see me posting them here, or anywhere else in public. Its just a very low thing to do.

When I see him up here I will mention it to him. Its low Joel, and you should know better. And you DO know what I am talking about.

I'm not Pletcher, but if some guy came up to me talking about some post on a chat site I would laugh at him. Don't make yourself look stupid over something like this.

Joel, call him a bad trainer(cool), say you don't like his hair(cool), say you thought he did a lousy job training so and so(cool), say he sucks at getting horses to run in such and such a classification(cool), say you don't like how he dresses(cool), say you think he steal owners(cool), whats definitely NOT COOL is repeating backstretch stuff, like I said I only have about 500 stories like that. Some about people that i absolutely hate, but I still won't post that kinda stuff, its just not right where I come from. I don't know how it works where you come from.

Hes not "just a guy" hes someone who claims to be in the business and even chats on a radio show, hey what comes around goes around.

Boldruler you are out one night(hypothetically) and you see an ADA or a DA or a judge who has had too many drinks pinching the rear end of a woman who is definitely not his wife, do you broadcast it to everyone? Or do you keep it on the down low?
Thats the point, you don't get it. If Joel was just some guy who wasn't involved in the game it woudl be different. But hes not. To be honest with you anyone who read that within the game wouldnt trust Joel as far as they could throw them. Noone wants to talk to or hang with guys looking to broadcast that kind of stuff. He broke the code, and he damn well knows it.

Ok. I am not a huge Pletcher fan because of something that might have happened this year to get one of his horses into the derby, but the fact is it probably wasn't him or his people anyway. One thing about Pletcher, he is the best in the business. Guy knows how to find races for his horses.

I get your point and probably should drop off the discussion because I don't know enough about the business. Seems like you are being a little hard on the guy for a comment though.

careful with your 'mights and maybes' conspiracy theories those are the kind of things that really piss people off...

Notice I didn't say anything specifically. Quite different than using a specific name of a horse and talking about injuries or drug use or whatever. Rumors make the business go as long as nobody states them as fact.

Mike you are 100% correct. As you know I worked in the Auto Racing industry for a couple years. I was witness to some things that I will never repeat in a public forum, guys that are on TV every Sunday now making a great living racing in Nextel Cup. The bottom line is this Joel, if I may offer this suggestion -

You obviously work in this business, and the point I am going to make is doubly important for you because apparently you write and need to get quotes, etc from people in the business. If Todd Pletcher by chance read what you wrote on this board, what do you think will go thru his head? My guess is this - the next time he sees you, the next time you need a quote or interview from him, he just might tell you the same thing he told the VP.

Joel again this coming from someone who made a similar mistake in 1998. I was in the pits at a track telling a story about what happened the previous night with an announcer and 3 Miller Light Girls to one of my buddies. Word spread and I almost lost my job.

YOu mean like accusing Dutrow as well like he did yesterday in a thinly veiled refrence? Look I like Joel and his passion and his love of the game. But hes talking down to a few of us that he should be talking TO , not down to. How long do you let a guy talking like that go unchecked?
I like the guy, but not everything he is spouting is on the mark.

Zito has banned lots of guys from interviews for doing exactly that kind of thing. They ask for an interview and he tells them very nicely that he doesnt have time to be assasinated right now. LOL!!!

Look Oracle...I am not breaking news about him curcing Steve in private..I wouldn't do that...this was in front of SEVERAL race fans....you can't pretend that it didn't happen.....if he were in the NBA he would have been fined by the league because you just have a greater responsibilty to display class and tact in front of the customers...

Fugitte was trying to enhance the experience for a few fans when he asked Todd that Q and got that response...i was sitting right there...it can't be denied or ignored just because he is Todd pletcher....I'm sure he was having a bad day and he just slipped up...it happens and I don't dislike Todd one bit, but from an administrative standpoint - you want more of the star players in your league being like Peytun Manning and not Terrell Owens if you know what I mean )and no, I'm NOT comparing him to TO..just saying)...

The fact remains that he has a great responsibility as a top trainer and face in our game, and when he does ANYTHING negative it poorly represents more than himself...

I think hes a great trianer and probably a great guy and if you tell him and he hates me for it then that is fine...I don't dislike the guy...i just call things as I see them and it was no huge secret because it was embarrassing to the fans that heard his comments that day...that doesn't mean he's a mass murderer...the sitaution is what it is....you are the only one on this thread that appears to take exception to my post - but thats not surprising to me...you've been like that since i began posting...have a nice day :)

You are over-reacting.....there is no secret society here.....I don't understand it at all....if I would have seen the guy out at a bar cheating on his wife then that would qualify as something that is NOT acceptable to post....I totally disagree that my original post was out of line, especially since SEVERAL fans heard it.....I never published it in the Courier Journal, I just mentioned it on this thread...Is it really that big of a deal?

One of the best pieces of advice that I got from my father was to "Don't sweat the small stuff"....there is probably way more important things to do on a beautiful Sunday afternoon than to get worked up over this thread...i don't understand

another saying i like is 'is this the hill you want to die on?'

Not in the interviewing business anymore, but I still obviously don't want to make enemies with Todd pletcher.....I guess I just don't see the fuss here...if he really won't like me because of this then that would say a lot about him....he could probably care less about who i am, but where I want to be one day in this game would probably put me involved with him and I certainly would like to have a good relationship with him.....i guess I'll get prosecuted for this ticky-tack post

Nice..........:D

Joel, you get the point obviously. No it may not have been a secret but you certainly could have found lots of ways to dig at him without revealing that incident. I'm sure you are a nice guy in person and I was trying to make a point, I'm not going to say anything. Airing personal dirty laundry just isnt soemthing I like. There are lost of ways to jump on people without doing that!!!!:)

In that case, I apologize for being insensative...I wasn't trying to be maliscious...I certainly didn't join this board to talk down at people and talk bad about trainers, etc.....that is just my persoanlity and at times it can be taken a bit out of context because I have strong opinion and convictions about this game and they sometimes aren't best represented by typing on this stupid keypad...

I love this sport with everything I have and could probably be making twice the money in another profession, but this is all I think about all day and this is all I focus my life's energy towards....I really like this chat forum and i don''t want to be hated or poorly thought of by anyone here or anywhere in the horseracing world/industry for that matter.....sorry :)

Haha, I don't think he is the only one you will find spouting about dutrow. You hear that at the track more than the call to the post.

i wish i could sleep in like that.

This moron at least knows how to spell asinine. How many ways can you people find to spell this word, I have never seen anything like it.

Sometimes this board reminds me of watching those little feist dogs left in people's cars in parking lots. Just barking their heads off at any movement.

mood -

You're a funny dude.

That is all.

actually, that's a pretty good analogy.

This seems like an awful lot of hullabaloo about nothing. So Todd told some guy fo F-off. Oh my God! That has surely never happened at either the racetrack or anywhere else in life. So, somebody repeated it here. Wow...that's just horrible. Maybe that poster wanted to slightly clarify what he perceived was a slightly skewed public image of someone he has PUBLICLY seen another side of. Can't see what's wrong with that. Maybe Todd would be happy that people got to see that he isn't always Mr. Goodytwoshoes.

What I find interesting is the outlandish praise for people by posters for pretty much no other reason than they personally like them. Hey, I'm all for defending one's friends, and I do it all the time, but let's keep just a little perspective here. There are more than a few performances on the racetrack these days that beg questions.

On that note, how can anybody not at least question Anew at this point, in light of Steve Assmussen's recent suspension. Perhaps he did find the proverbial answer to this horse, but he was floundering in 25K claimers and suddenly became perhaps the top sprinter in the country. Why shouldn't we be at least skeptical? If you truly view many results over the past 5 or more years and don't at least have SOME suspicions, whether founded or unfounded, then you really aren't paying attention.

There is a very conclusive reason for Anew's turn-around and it is due to the fact that he was gelded last december and hasn't lost a race since.....the ultimate equipment change made all the difference, just like balto star and many others that turned around after getting snipped....

I will never accuse anybody of anything specific because i due think that is counter-productive and not kosher for a man in my position, but as a high-level horse player I understand that some of the stuff I witness in the game is almost impossible and has to be unatural...I am certain that there is no coincidence in the things that I witness watching races day after day after day.....to say that everybody plays fair would be insulting mine and every other horse player's intelligence....

Believe me, I am a big " first time gelding " player and have done well at times in the past playing that angle almost exclusively. However, sorry if I am just a little suspicious of that being the only reason that horse made his overnight transformation. He is hardly the only member of that barn that has been running out of his skin lately. I am not accusing anybody of anything, just looking at the results, and a slew of sudden speed figure jumps always gives me at least a little cause for pause.

I can understand where you are coming from...............I personally like Steve Asmussen and regard him as one of if not the best trainer in the game...i apprecaite the money, time and energy he puts into this game...it is very enviable and I think very highly of the guy and regard him as a true Ambassador of our sport, but I'm not blind and understand that things happen in this sport...I'm not saying that Steve is guilty, but things do happen in this sport like any other....he probably has close to half a million horses under his mangement and is spread from coast to coast......It is really impressive and unbelieveable to see him manage that herculean jugernaut of a stable that he has, and I'm sure that he can't oversee every little thing but must be accountable for everything.....

I know EvD racing and I know No End in Sight, and I'll just say that I doubt that Steve would condone cheating with drugs on a filly running for $10K claimers at EvD with what he has to lose.....I just know him and that is my opinion, but to say that he or any others trainer hasn't knowingly or unknowingly cheated is just plain wrong...they alll probably have done something at some poit..

Hell, I remember a couple of years ago when Neil Howard got a suspension or fine at Fair Grounds for something, and he was so embarrased that he wanted reporters to come and get his story out.....Neil is one of the most honest and genuinely great guys on the backside and he would never knowingly cheat.....it happens

Presumable, when a horse comes off of a long layoff, it is only some percentage of its optimum racing fitness (80%, 90%, whatever), which needs racing to be developed. Therefore, a contest versus lesser animals gives a horse coming off of a lay-off the best shot of winning and these days, when any loss negatively influences stallion value, it is clearly the way to go.

Ooops. Should have read the WHOLE thread before I jumped in.

I'm hoping the "half a million horses under his management" comment was hyperbole. That's a big number of horses, even by Assmussen standards.

any word on Declans Moon or Bellemy Road?