i'd rather have the chocolate...you weren't supposed to chew, so at least the chocolate would melt so you don't choke.

How did you come to the conclusion that the question is "what are we supposed to do about Jesus"? What happens to people that never get to read the bible? How did you come to the conclusion that it has to be while you are alive (and what about all the babies that never have a chance to answer that question because they die)? And when you answer this how did you determine that the bible says this is so. Purgatory... where does this idea now stand with all the Christian faiths? Study just the bible, which version, which childrens bibles are more to the real stuff? Who wrote the interpretation of the " best childrens bibles" and how did they come to believe what they were writing was the truth? Were they guided by God in their writings, or did they reason based on what they had read and gave their best honest interpretation?

I got tons more.

lay on your right side, helps empty the stomach....i think it's white wine with popcorn! lol

GR: hope you don't get too sick! That reminds me of the time I went on a liquid fast for 5 weeks for losing weight. So on New Years eve...I treated myself to 8oz of wine and a small bowl of popcorn.....spent 4hrs walking around cuz of the "spins":)

That's exactly why I think it is more important to be a good person than to believe in a higher power...There are jungle cultures right now who have no clue about Jesus or organized religion....Obviously they get a pass right? So how will a "higher power" judge them....Well I would bet that it is based on the totality of their life----if and its an if there is an afterlife.

ben franklin is my hero...and it cracks me up when the whole we are a christian nation look at the founding fathers dialogue starts. t jefferson was accused of being an atheist back then, now he's been redeemed i guess.

You didnt read Romans 2 yet! A little at a time,P...I'm spoon-feeding you:)

Since you brought up Old Ben- in his own words....

To Ezra Stiles, 9 March 1790 (B 12:185-6):

"You desire to know something of my religion. It is the first time I have been questioned upon it. But I cannot take your curiosity amiss, and shall endeavor in a few words to gratify it. Here is my creed. I believe in one God, the creator of the universe. That he governs by his providence. That he ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable service we render to him is doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them.

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think his system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequences, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and more observed; especially as I do not perceive that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure."

Repeat after me....reads Romans Chapter 2 in the New Testament. I think it's 15-17 that tells you the answer.

Tim my man, I don't have my bible handy---can you sum up.

Randall: I be right back!

Which version? King James... its all the same?

I want to read the Hebrew version. The oldest stuff I can get my hands on. But you will have to teach me how to read it. The oldest stuff is most likely to be the real word? right? The least altered... I mean English is so new. And it changes so much.

P: they have these places called bookstores....Hebrew,Greek dictionaries and all kinds of explanatory guides!

Oh my God(dess)- if you haven't read the comments on the link I posted, scroll down. Some of them are hilarious. Highlights:

"I guess a Jesus made entirely from Peeps would be unacceptable?"

"Unacceptably delicious."

And:

"Do you think Chocolate Jesus had a caramel center or peanut butter??"

"If you made a white chocolate statue of Jesus with a liquid cherry center then you could use a toothpick to add the stigmata yourself."

I only wish I were that clever... now I'm sick to my stomach AND envious...

Nicole, you need an avatar. That is all.

Yeah, but being a Libra, it'll take me forever to decide on one...

i'll have to go read it, but from what i read here from you, they were listening in at my dinner table the other night...

Can we start a thread for your avatar and include ones we think would work for you? Would be a fun thread.

OK...in summation Romans 2:12-16....Everyone who sins under the Law willed be judged by the Law....not the hearers of the Law,but the doers will be justified....and the Gentiles will be justified(anyone who is not a Jew)...If you don't have the Law, then instinctively you are the Law....meaning holding to the laws of the society you live in...by doing the right things in their hearts they are accused or defended by those laws thereby finding salvation or Hell...to put it in perspective

Great. Now I'm envious of your dinner conversation, too. And that's one of the deadly sins, right? (Envy, not dinner conversation) Man!

Sure. I'm always happy when someone else makes a decision so I don't have to. And I agree; it'd be a hilarious thread. I can only imagine what Bababooyee would suggest...

I dont have permission from Israel, the Vatican, etc.. to get to the old stuff though. The real stuff. Not what was interpreted from the real stuff. I mean I want the actual Apostles writings. And then Im gonna need people that understand the real old Hebrew. Because its changed to.

And we apparently are finding "new" old stuff. Think its possible we got all the Apostles stuff? Did we miss some of it? Is that possible? Always digging around you know and we find new old stuff. Did we get all of Paul and Luke and John?

huh?

I read Romans 2 from this:

The Holy Bible
Old Testament First Published 1609 by the English College at Douay
New Testament First Published 1582 by the English College at Rheims
Revised and Annotated 1749 by Bishop Richard Challoner
Online Edition Copyright © 2006 by Kevin Knight
Imprimatur. +James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, September 1, 1899

Had the Latin with the English translated. Very difficult. And the English College at Douay and Rheims dont have the real documents. I did read the circumcision part. Got that covered, oops, errr... uncovered.

Now you are just being silly. You can use the same machinations you use with every endeavor you start, and being the kind who wants an answer, don't quit until you're satisfied!

Okay, I think my stomach will attempt to digest the 8,000 calories worth of popcorn I ate, rather than giving it back. Thanks guys, for keeping me entertained while I fought my nausea; I'm going to bed.

I ate all that d*mn popcorn during "Killer of Sheep" which was described as the best movie of the 1970's that no one ever saw:

http://salon.com/ent/movies/review/2007/03/30/killer/

I found it profoundly depressing, in that nothing really, seems to have changed since 1977.

Douay will get you nowhere in a hurry! Try www.biblegateway.com....NASB or NIV would be a start. Glad to hear about your....eh, what does one send for that occasion?

You're late to the party....

No I am serious with my point. This is not easy.

2:5. But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God:
Secundum duritiam autem tuam et inpaenitens cor thesaurizas tibi iram in die irae et revelationis iusti iudicii Dei

2:6. Who will render to every man according to his works.
Qui reddet unicuique secundum opera eius

2:7. To them indeed who, according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life:
His quidem qui secundum patientiam boni operis gloriam et honorem et incorruptionem quaerentibus vitam aeternam

2:8. But to them that are contentious and who obey not the truth but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation.
His autem qui ex contentione et qui non adquiescunt veritati credunt autem iniquitati ira et indignatio

2:9. Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that worketh evil: of the Jew first, and also of the Greek.
Tribulatio et angustia in omnem animam hominis operantis malum Iudaei primum et Graeci

2:10. But glory and honour and peace to every one that worketh good: to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Gloria autem et honor et pax omni operanti bonum Iudaeo primum et Graeco

No Tim this is the word. Science changes with changing evidence and observation. Science is skeptical and must change.

The Bible is the Bible. It relies on faith. It was gathered from many people in many times and has been translated over and over. So what happened to Christ and what he did for us does not change. So we can rely totally on what we read now? What is the best version of the Bible. What have you got?

The above is not even close to what I need. Because I realize it is way recent and translated too many times. Latin, thats Roman crud. I need the Hebrew.

THAT was impressive! I have to go now... but there are various sources to get what you need...but I wouldn't suggest the "Damascus Road" experience;)

Timm I have read many diff. parts of the bible with my daughter. When we started and got to the part about being puffy, she was laughing so hard because we had just seen a baseball game with a guy dressed as a puffy taco. I had to explain to her what they meant by puffy. Full of overconfidence, self-absorbed and assured, not being humble, etc... I think there is a lesson here.

I hope you are seeing my point. WE are seeking what we can understand through the written word. You dont think Douay will get me anywhere, so you seek the written word that you understand. Someone had to write that for us to understand. But it is good enough, because at least we are trying, even if you and I get misled by bad translation (or it just cant be wrong)? or lost stuff that has never been translated? God surely cant hold that against us. Or can he? If 3 billion Chinese not exposed can be tossed, can we for not digging and questioning? For not finding the truth. Because you and I both know what we are reading that we do understand quite possibly is not the truth.

This could be interpreted as puffy.
Have a good night/morning and have a better tomorrow/today.

Well P... if we could sit down and talk, I'd be surprised if you still felt that way. Danzig asked a question about a response I gave to Randall. The rest of it is all there,if you read it. I will resist the temptation to explain myself to God by saying " Well, you should have sent a better messenger" Best Timm

I always go by seek and you shall find, sometimes. At least try. And I can tell you are a heck of a good guy. These sorts of discussions pretty much lead down the same path, but they are still useful. Have a great day.

GR,
Update on the "cocolate nuts". I was rollin' on the floor when I read the comments...
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8021#comments

My guess is that Catholics know chocolate, maybe Jesus...definitely not art!
LOL...forgot "free speech", oh my!