Pants, you've heard the term, "busta move"?

I think you're bustin' more'n your move here. I just don't see how you keep bustin' 'em, and getting back up. .....You sure can dance.

Really and why? (other than I know you don't really like Street Sense)

He's definitely a derby contender when you consider that Churchill has a knack for making the track a highway on big days.

I robbed a liquor store with Young MC.

Not b/c of Street Sense at all....But b/c I liked his style today, he was patient and professional and I felt there was something left at the end. He was 3 wide essentially the whole race and won from a very difficult post in a route race there...Just liked this race by Hard Spun more than that one. Just as I've liked Great Hunter's races more than this one. You just start ranking them in your mind is all....I am a Jones fan also. Would place a horse with him in a heartbeat.

The post is not a bad one at Turfway and the being 3 wide in routes is not bad either. The track plays almost opposite of a regular dirt track.

I never thought you were implying I did. I just thought nobody really did....and I can't understand Hooves's posts anyway. I'm not THAT smart.

Got ya...I guess I'm always quick to give more props to a horse who can slug it out. I wasn't really big on Saturday and although he lost it was a fantastic effort. I like Great Hunter a great deal as well and the Bluegrass is going to be a race that will hopefully bring great debate prior to it's running.

Poly should be considered a third surface primarily because; it is the third surface. Hard Spun likes a cushion. Without his developed cough he wouldn't have been in KY today. Derby hopes for him are preposterous.

There haven't been any performances to scare him off...so far.

No doubt TP poly is more fair when wide, but Hard Spun took the overland route at every point in the race---and just got the feeling he was in control from the opening bell and Pino could take it any time he wanted it....End of the day, I'm looking forward to Hard Spun's next race when I wasn't even looking forward to this one.

He got almost the same trip he got in the Oaklawn race. Everybody killed Pino then . Funny how circumstances can make the same ride either great or horrible.

I just think he was flat that day at OP for whatever reason....I'll tell you, whenever I see Jones horses at Bel or Sar, they always look muscled out. Bunch of tanks running around. And from what I could see from ESPN today, he has that look.

At Oaklawn he fired the same way he did today and hung. He did not hang today. I thought he had a lot of gunk upon scoping him at the SW. It may be the surface, but it may be the horse was fit today.

I'm just thrilled Bullara was up the track.

I think that if the Southwest was run at TP then he may have won that too.

They all have gunk when they don't fire. Or entrapped, or didn't like the track, or don't run well on cloudy days....etc....he just didn't have it that day. As i've always said, they aren't robots. The best horses have off days---except Mineshaft--LOL.

He had to be up the track...he has very limited ability. I was thrilled Twilight Meteor, who was the second choice I think, didn't run a lick. To me he was the biggest joke in the race. I don't blame them for running but from a handicapping standpoint he was a complete toss for me.

You know what I think has been happening with this, people are too quick to equate grass form with poly form....I hear from everyone that "a horse that's good on grass should love poly" and vice versa. It isn't that easy but people are betting that way....And to me the overall ability level of TM on grass wasn't much anyway.

Had he been beaten Pino would have been bashed for another 3 wide trip. The only difference is this field was a bunch of plugs, he probably could have been 5 wide and won. I dont think this enhances his chances of winning the Derby, infact I dont think hes a serious contender, however nothing else in that field was either.

Mineshaft had one off day I believe. His first on the turf. After he got off of that surface things were never the same.
Dammit Randall Im tryin to help you here. He may not have been feeling well at the SW. I think he is a good horse poly or not. He may not win the Derby but he has the style that can. Only thing is he appears to run hard. He looks like he takes a bit of a pounding, but this may just be me. Or maybe its just the replays I have watched. Others may show differently.

LOL, thanks buddy but I don't look for help....Yeah I wish Mineshaft had been over here for the 3 yr old dirt season. Useful horse on the turf, monster on the dirt.

Yeah, nice call there. I looked at those Bullara PP's over and over, it took him 7 times to break his maiden which is of course red flag right there, at least for the win. So ok, he's not great, but he's now gone back to the Pletcher barn after his maiden win. So maybe something's up there, maybe he's finally figured it out.

But then I look at all those maiden races and one time he was less than even money to win and he fails. And three other times, he was less than 3-2 to win and he cant win. How can a horse be that well thought of that many times and still not win..? Maybe they were setting it up for the big score?? I dunno, seemed odd.

To my untrained eye, Hard Spun broke much sharper yesterday than at Oaklawn, he could have gotten the lead, Pino took a hold of him.. at Oaklawn, he had no chance to get the lead. Other than that, the trips were basically the same.

Hard Spun was plenty impressive Saturday despite again having trouble off the turn with his lead change. This WASN'T the identical race he ran in the Southwest.. it was the identical race he ran in the LeComte, a race people seem to have forgotten, and one in which he did exactly what he did at Turfway.

As I said all week, when Steve Asmussen stated he was bringing Curlin back to Kentucky because he didn't like how his horses have been getting over the Oaklawn surface, it was independent confirmation that what Larry Jones had said after the Southwest had credibility. Personally, as a Jones fan (Hello Liberty, Wildcat Bettie B, Gasia, et al..), I loved yesterday's result as a "GFY" to the racing press that was so quick to deride Jones and scoff at the Danzig colt.

What made the effort impressive was his being used early to gain position (:22.4) and his subsequent ability to run on... :22.4, :24.3 (:47.2), :24.1 (:48.4), :25.0 (:49.1), :12.4 (:37.4), 1:49.2. What he showed today was that he is a handy colt. Demonstrating tractability, he did it entirely on his own while under steady restraint by Pino.

I don't know why anyone would doubt his viability as a classic runner moving forward.

nice post, kasept.

fwiw, Hard Spun earned a 101 Beyer for the Lanes End.

--Dunbar

Overall an impresse win by Hard Spun, as mentioned the splits were solid and he kept running. The Blue Grass is shaping up as a monster.

I notice the lead change too in the replay, had sort of a weird action in the stretch also. Really don't know what to make of him, he'll be switching to "another" different surface at Keeneland with their polytrack. Still, there's a lot of talent there and the price you'll get on him Derby day (if he gets there) will be a interesting factor.

i wasnt that impressed..thats just my oppinion..no one ran well..im glad for the connections as steve said ..but in the big picture id hardly consider this a stand out derby horse ,,again just my dumb oppinion..

:D :D

Great post Steve...thanks

I have a question about his switching leads and looking a bit awkard at times coming out of the turn and into the stretch....but first I will eat the crow, because after the Southwest, I was very critical of the connections and what I thought at the time was a lame "excuse" for his poor performance.

Now the question....I'm not sure how many people notice it, but could the fact that Pino is very "figity" have anything to do with Hard Spun's movement? He is all over the place when he's in the saddle. He is constantly looking around, switching hands, etc....Has always been one of his little quirks I suppose.

We all like to second guess trainers. Jones was proven right this time even if some think he went to the softest spot to get the earnings. His tactical speed, to obtain position out of the gate, because of post position is a good trait. Even his slowing down after using his speed early is good and having a moderate if not overwhelming finish sets him up a a strong contender with the best. In retrospect dosent this win make the Ark bunch look better? Im not saying Hard Spun is my selection but how can anyone not think this was a positive move by him and his connections.

I agree.

After viewing all three races in question I still believe that yesterdays race was very similar to the Southwest. In the LeConte Hard Spun basically set an even pace and finished up well. In the last 2 races he was taken in hand while in a wide stalking position though he was a bit closer to the pace yesterday. The difference in my opinion was that when he made his move yesterday he was closer to the leaders, was a bit stronger and was doing it on a track that is condusive to that type of move. In the Southwest he had to make up a little more ground and was used up a little in making up that ground in a fairly fast 3rd quarter and was doing it on a track where it was virtually impossible to make that move.
I dont like or dislike this horse or connections. I think that he is a good horse and thought he ran really well yesterday. But that three wide in hand trip is not going to work out many other tracks like it did yesterday and it most assuredly wont work at CD on the 1st sat in May. The biggest question I have about this horse is can he rate BEHIND other horses? Not outside of them, but behind them. I'm sure that there will be plenty of pace in the Derby and my question for this horse is can he sit behind horses, take dirt in his face and handle it?

I agree with your wvaluation even though Im sure you dont need that. what I wonder is that you question his ability to come from behind not being out side and others knock Street sense and his style of doing exactly what you think HS hasnt shown the ability to do.Street Sens is alway knocked about his perfect trip. Dont horses with ability alwayts seem to carve a perfect trip. If you look back at the BC SS got the perfect trip but if you watch the replay . The inside hole was quickly closing but Borel had the horse to take the hole before it closed.

This is a very good point. Hard Spun, like many others, are not Smarty Jones. They do not dictate the terms of the race. So the flexibility of all of these horses will come into play. And if none have the flexibility to adjust to unfamiliar positions, luck will play a huge role (as it always does, but less so if we have a horse that is far superior to the others).

So versatility... which of these horses so far has shown the versatility to win in different ways? I have not seen enough yet. Right now I would say Street Sense.

HO as I was typing this another post slips in saying basically the same thing, sorry Jpops

But you said it much better. It must be the Texas in us.

Generally, I would agree with this, but I did see another quote where Asmussen said he noticed some horses not getting over the Oaklawn track(this was post Curlin win), so there might be some validity in what Jones was saying.

I don't think people are knocking SS for his trips and resulting victories, but rather are saying that he got the edge over Any Given Saturday. Having the edge of being willing to cut inside horses is a positive in my mind...but it doesn't always mean you were the best horse in the race.