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-   -   the most OVER rated horses in history (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97)

ArlJim78 05-31-2006 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing
This is easy....Funny Cide is BY FAR the most over-hyped Thoroughbred of the modern era...he captured the American public after winning a weak renewal of both the Derby and Preakness (especially since Empire Maker was crippled in the Derby), and he has struggled to beat NYRA-breds and Gr. III compant since - without any significant excuse.

He simply is just not a very good horse and happened to peak at the right time in May of 2003 - similar to Giacomo in last year's Derby, although everybody knew Giacomo was a fraud at the time....the difference is that people were really convinced that Funny Cide was a true Champion of the ages during his run through the Triple Crown races - while most savvy analysts knew that Empire Maker was the best of that subpar group of 3-year-olds.

I guess I missed the part where Funny Cide was heralded as a champion of the ages. To me he was and is a popular horse with a good story.

I like the fact that he beat the horse that the savvy analysts had annointed as a horse for the ages before he even proved much of anything on the track.

Pointg5 05-31-2006 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlJim78
I guess I missed the part where Funny Cide was heralded as a champion of the ages. To me he was and is a popular horse with a good story.

I like the fact that he beat the horse that the savvy analysts had annointed as a horse for the ages before he even proved much of anything on the track.

Horse for the Ages, huh, I guess i missed that as well, he was a very good horse, he did win a G1 as a 4yo, so kind of hard to rip on a horse that has won 3 G1's. Empire Maker was a better horse, but that's not to take away from FC. He's been chronically mismanaged, but definetely not overrated.

Point Given is the most overrated, never beat older horses and his Sheet figs were not that fast...

ptgiven 05-31-2006 07:47 PM
heres one to throw out there....i always thought Sea Hero was over rated besides his derby and travers win he did nothing and we got a statue of him in the paddock at saratoga...make any sense?

Hickory Hill Hoff 05-31-2006 07:53 PM
Point Given got hurt after the Travers that year. Would have most likely faced older in his next start. Wasn't as bad as some other 3yrs. Both him and Thunder Gulch were the most underrated 3yrs. in the past 20 years.

Cunningham Racing 05-31-2006 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointg5
Horse for the Ages, huh, I guess i missed that as well, he was a very good horse, he did win a G1 as a 4yo, so kind of hard to rip on a horse that has won 3 G1's.
The American Public made a huge deal about Funny Cide...he was the next coming of Seabiscuit in the summer of '03 to the American public - NOT the real racing community...lets make that clear. Funny Cide was the blue collar gelding from New York who got way to much hype for his quality....the connections were all over the news for months it seamed and they sold merchandise like crazy considering he is SIMPLY NOT VERY GOOD.

For you who beleive the Gr. I Jockey Club Gold Cup stakes he won at four was a stellar renewal - you may want to go back and look at the charts....I always thought Funny Cide was overrated and even I bet him in that race becuase it was absolutely horrible....he beat rats like Newfoundland in there...very bad race.

Hickory Hill Hoff 05-31-2006 07:56 PM
They wanted a statue in the paddock and at the time Paul Mellon and Mac Miller were the big thing in racing.

whorstman 05-31-2006 07:56 PM
Can't believe anybody says Funny Cide. I don't care what he did after TC, he had a crack at immortality, ANY horse that wins the first 2 leggs of the TC, deserves some credit. Harsh critics. If you want to point to recent history, Brother Derek catches my eye. Everybody was on his "D" and he didn't bust a grape.

Pointg5 05-31-2006 07:57 PM
Point Given's sheet figs were equivalent to Lawyer Ron's, nobody is calling him great. He beat the likes of AP Valentine, E Dubai, Wooden Phone, Crafty CT, and a hurt Monarchos, those are some all time greats.

Congaree was a much better horse than Point Given...

Pointg5 05-31-2006 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing
The American Public made a huge deal about Funny Cide...he was the next coming of Seabiscuit in the summer of '03 to the American public - NOT the real racing community...lets make that clear. Funny Cide was the blue collar gelding from New York who got way to much hype for his quality....the connections were all over the news for months it seamed and they sold merchandise like crazy considering he is SIMPLY NOT VERY GOOD.

For you who beleive the Gr. I Jockey Club Gold Cup stakes he won at four was a stellar renewal - you may want to go back and look at the charts....I always thought Funny Cide was overrated and even I bet him in that race becuase it was absolutely horrible....he beat rats like Newfoundland in there...very bad race.
Yes, overrated horses win G1's at 3 and 4 happens all of the time...

Gauchos0522 05-31-2006 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointg5
Point Given's sheet figs were equivalent to Lawyer Ron's, nobody is calling him great. He beat the likes of AP Valentine, E Dubai, Wooden Phone, Crafty CT, and a hurt Monarchos, those are some all time greats.

Congaree was a much better horse than Point Given...
Has to be one of my top 5 favs of all time. He won the cigar mile twice but was really dissapointed with his met mile. From 7f to 1 1/4 he was very good with his best game coming at 1 mile I think.

Hoisttheflag 05-31-2006 08:10 PM
If anything Funny Cide is underrated. He deserves as much respect as people are willing to give him. Not only did he run a great Derby and Preakness but his Wood and Belmont were good races. He actually was a very fast horse who put up some great times. He had a workout that was probably too quick for the Belmont, although I don't think he would have won. If anything Empire Maker is the overrated one. He didn't get it done in the two big ones, the derby and travers.

For me the most overrated/overhyped horse was Saarland. At 3,4, and 5 he won nothing but allowance races. Not one stake. He was an Unbridled on top and Versailles Treaty on bottom (monster filly that won 4 grade 1's) and he never won anything except the remsen at 2 and allowance races.

Suffolk Shippers 05-31-2006 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing
This is easy....Funny Cide is BY FAR the most over-hyped Thoroughbred of the modern era...he captured the American public after winning a weak renewal of both the Derby and Preakness (especially since Empire Maker was crippled in the Derby), and he has struggled to beat NYRA-breds and Gr. III compant since - without any significant excuse.

He simply is just not a very good horse and happened to peak at the right time in May of 2003 - similar to Giacomo in last year's Derby, although everybody knew Giacomo was a fraud at the time....the difference is that people were really convinced that Funny Cide was a true Champion of the ages during his run through the Triple Crown races - while most savvy analysts knew that Empire Maker was the best of that subpar group of 3-year-olds.
I think Funny Cide was over rated, but I dont think anyone heralded him as the next superhorse. He ran a good race in the Wood, a very good race in the Derby and was lights out at Pimlico. That was his peak right there, calling him a fraud and comparing him to Giacomo is off base.

The sport was denied a chance at a legitimate Triple Crown winner in Afleet Alex last year partly because the owners of Bandini threw the glorified quarter horse Spanish Chestnut out there to light the pace on fire and Giacomo practically collapsed across the line, coming home in like 25 or 26 and change.

Funny Cide, ran a solid race, held a few lengths off Peace Rules and made a well timed move, passing in the stretch AND digging in to hold off Empire Maker.

Buffymommy 05-31-2006 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip away
Funny Cide, Bellamy Road, Point Given, Cliffs Edge, Perfect Drift. All overrated. :eek:

You talking bad about my gusty gelding? COME ON DUDE! This horse still finishes in the money nine times out of ten racing horses half his age. Give the boy some credit! We should all have a horse this overrated.

Cunningham Racing 05-31-2006 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointg5
Congaree was a much better horse than Point Given...
I have talked to Baffert personally about this subject...not only was Point Given a much better horse than Congaree, Baffert told me that Point Given was the best horse he has ever trained (up to the end of last year and there han't been one better yet)...FYI

Habersham000 05-31-2006 10:03 PM
has to be Fusaichi Pegasus he beat nobody in the derby....

Thunder Gulch 06-01-2006 09:57 AM
Secretariat had a few "off" days which some of the other all-time greats didn't. However, when he was on his game, he was simply the best ever. He shattered track and world records at different distances, tracks, and surfaces.

Metal Man 06-01-2006 10:19 AM
It's going to be Lost in the Fog.


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