Derby Trail Forums - Ripken Jr. & Gwynn elected to HOF, McGwire left out

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horseofcourse

01-09-2007 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Then I'm curious as to what "special" is. Didn't know that doing something "special" was criteria for the HOF. I just thought it was being one of the best players in your generation. In the years you are talking about he was 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, '91 was an awful year no arguement there, 2nd in HR's and again he played in 54 combined games in '93 and '94. He was consistent at least. I'd say if Thome gets to 500 he's a HOFamer. And like I said, he wasn't a great all around player, never said he was. But he was an exceptional homerun hitter, steroids or not. I think you are kind of forgwetting that the years you are referring to were a lifetime ago baseball wise. Nowadays hitting 50 homeruns isn't really a big thing, it's expected. Back then it was a big deal. McGwire hit 49 his rookie year. He was the premier homerun hitter of his generation and probably the most feared hitter in his day. He should be in eventually.

Well, is Dave Kingman a hall of famer?? He was the premier power hitter in his day. He finished top 3 in his league in home runs 8 times in a 12 year period, leading the league twice. From 1975 through 1986 I don't think you can find too many hitters with more home runs than Kong. Does anyone consider him a hall of famer?? So he only hit .204 in 1982...who cares, he led the league in homers and that was his job!! Simply put, being a premier power hitter does not make you a hall of famer. I'm taking this argument to the extreme here but it's fun nonetheless!!

horseofcourse

01-09-2007 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

No Kingman isn't and he shouldn't really be compared to McGwire. There are certain achievements that seem to get you in automatically. 500 HR's, 300 wins, 3000 K's. Kingman doesn't have any of those. Well maybe the 3000 K's I have to check. :D And I see what you are saying. But you are making it out like McGwire had a few good years. Those years '88 to '94 were very productive numbers wise for him and he was among the league leaders in all of those years. His career #'s will get him in. I don't agree with the juice stuff but his career #'s are hard to avoid.

I think he's comparable to Hack Wilson who got in the HOF solely on a 6 year period 1926 to 1932 without any additional years that McGwire had and his so far untouchable 191 rbi season in 1930. Interesting side stat on Hack...in his 56 home run 191 rbi year in 1930 he also had 18 sacrifice hits!! Imagine that today...Felipe Alou laying down the bunt sign to Bonds!!

Gander

01-10-2007 07:59 AM

I'll have to agree that Mark Mcgwire was never that special of a player. He played for a pretty long time and accumulated a lot of HRs but lets face it, he is Dave Kingman on steroids. Nothing more. Even without the steroid controversy his numbers over his entire career arent that great. Its pretty obvious that his boom years werent because he became a "better hitter". I would have to say no and I hope he never gets in. But if he does, it doesnt matter anyways, the hall of fame is a tainted joke anyways filled with double standards.

eurobounce

01-10-2007 10:24 AM

The Baseball Hall Of Fame is a joke. A couple of voters turned in blank ballots. Come on, you are given a job to do and they decide not to vote.

Gander

01-10-2007 12:17 PM

And a couple people chose to vote for Ken Caminiti over Jim Rice and Goose Gossage. Can you explain this?

eurobounce

01-10-2007 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

And a couple people chose to vote for Ken Caminiti over Jim Rice and Goose Gossage. Can you explain this?

No I can't. This is why it is a joke to me. I cannot imagine why Jim Rice is not in the hall. It is sickening. The people who do vote (well some) do not take it seriously. One person who submitted a blank ballot said he did so because he didnt want Cal or Gwynn to get 100% of the vote--what kind of freaking logic is that.

Gander

01-10-2007 01:41 PM

Tony Gwynn is sick.

19 straight seasons of batting .300 or higher
7 seasons during that time batting .350 or higher
Lifetime batting average of .338
3,141 hits
5 times a gold glove winner

I sat very close to him the one time I visited San Diego (old stadium) and he is a lot bigger a guy than you would ever think. What a great player.

eurobounce

01-10-2007 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

What is even sicker is that he is 1000 hits from Pete Rose's all time hits record. Gwynn was such a great player. And he did it all on one team which is awesome too. I miss seeing him in the 3 hole when I watch San Diego.

SniperSB23

01-10-2007 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

Ichiro already has 6 Gold Gloves and can do anything Gwynn could do. Too bad he didn't start here from the beginiing. He still has a shot to match Gwynn's hit totals despite not playing here until he was 27.

Gander

01-10-2007 02:01 PM

Ichiro is pretty amazing, no doubt. Sweetest swing in baseball. The huge advantage for Ichiro is his speed. He gets a ton of infield singles (some may call cheap hits), something that Gwynn got hardly any of.

Both great talents and great people.

eurobounce

01-10-2007 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

Ichiro is awesome. A rare breed in todays game. The best thing about Gwynn was the length of time he performed at the top. I want to see how Ichiro does once he loses his speed. No doubt that Ichiro is the better outfielder, but I want to see how he does in year 14 and beyond.

Gander

01-10-2007 03:10 PM

I dont think Ichiro will lose his speed until he hits 45 and by then he will be retired. The guy is in great shape and trains very hard in the off season. He will always be fast as long as he is a player.

eurobounce

01-10-2007 03:41 PM

45--whoa, that is saying something right there. You can stay in shape all you want but when you get older you lose a couple of steps. The hands get slower through the box and your feet dont move as fast.

Gander

01-10-2007 03:50 PM

Not when you train as hard as he does and eat rice paddies. The guy is a machine. Hes a professional and loves his work. Trust me, this guy may lose a step or two, but he will be beating out ground balls until he is 45.

eurobounce

01-10-2007 04:00 PM

I don't know. Michael Jordan couldnt do it when he got into his 40's - your body just cant do it anymore regardless what you do to keep in shape. I hope he does because he is a joy to watch.

timmgirvan

01-10-2007 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I don't know. Michael Jordan couldnt do it when he got into his 40's - your body just cant do it anymore regardless what you do to keep in shape. I hope he does because he is a joy to watch.

Big size diff between MJ and Ichiro!! 90ft is less than the length of court, so I'll go with Ichiro!

Downthestretch55

01-11-2007 12:59 PM

Just my two cents...Pete Rose should be in the HOF.
I'm not sure if Roger Marris is in but if he's not, he should be.

timmgirvan

01-11-2007 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Just my two cents...Pete Rose should be in the HOF.
I'm not sure if Roger Marris is in but if he's not, he should be.

Pete should be there because of his on the field play....the fact that he's an idiot for betting on games that he managed shouldn't come into play! Roger Maris really had only 2 great years and that 's not enough for HOF

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