Thanks, brian, but rereading it, I need to clarify something that was part of something I later cut out because I'm longwinded enough--

I'm not saying I think "tough noogies; you signed up for it" about our soldiers over there (looking at my comments about voluntary enlistment). I still think we were deliberately misled into war by this Administration because they really thought they could pull this off and win before their lies caught up with them. And I think our army works hard, and quite frankly, is not well-paid for what they do or well-supported when they return from war. And I think while enlisting is voluntary, that the men and women who enlist believe that our government would never send them into danger unless there were no other alternative. And I think this administratin willfully sent them into danger and death without reason, and I think that was a huge breach of faith with the military. And a huge breach of humanity and humility on the part of the President and Vice President.

Only I issue I take that rape is a tactic of modern war. I think it's an insult to the men and women that serve us. but I'll definitely check with my future father in law and brother in law. One was a linquist in Vietnam and one was a Marine. I'll ask them how rape class was in basic training.

Now am I naive that it hasn't happened in every war? No, however I don't believe that in modern war it's instructed or ordered. War is ugly....it changes people.

Also the adopt a soldier site, that you yourself posted on here, I saw several entries asking for candy for the children....a lot of men and women who do have compassion for the Iraqi people. But I guess if you saw the release on the real Iraq plan Shock, Awe, & Rape...I'll take your word on it.

GR,
Thanks for saying it again and again.
You are spot on!
Others use racist names, just like during Vietnam days the indigenous people were called "gooks".
When anyone dehumanizes his fellow human inhabitants on this planet, it only demonstrates the justification for abhorent policies and actions.
If any war monger reads this, please answer only one question so as to demonstrate your intelligence, define the word "victory".
Thank you. Also, facts, not personal attacks.

Sorry, GR, but I'm with Bill on this...

Who are you to assume that our soldiers are rapists? Please inform me as to where you're getting that information. My father served in Vietnam and he never ONCE touched a Vietnamese woman or child.

Let's not pretend it doesn't still happen, and let's not pretend that it doesn't happen at the hands of American troops.

Nobody here has ever said that American soldiers are inhumane or that they have no compassion for Iraqi women, children, or anyone else. Nobody here has said, or insinuated in any way, that American soldiers are generally rapists. By and large, American soldiers are heroes in every sense of the word.

But they aren't all perfect, and it's not wrong to point it out.

I didn't even have to scroll down the page at google.com to find this gem for you: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1789544.shtml

Brian, I clearly did say it occurs...however a tactic of war? It's an awful thing that definitely occurs....but I for one do think it's the minority and not the majority.

and you edit out the part of my post that says that?

Cajun,
I really like you as a person.
Have you heard about Haditha?
I also know much about Vietnam. Try Mei Li, Medina, Calley.
Google will do.
"Victory"? Anyone????
DTS

So does everyone else here, as far as I can tell -- so I'm not sure why everyone is getting all defensive and accusing people of insinuating that all American soldiers are rapists...:confused:

Of course it happens! It happens here all of the time, but guess what, it's not a tactic of war. While I'm at it, let me point out to you that Orlando has one of the highest murder and rape rates in the country. Is that a tactic of war too? I just think that to word it the way it was worded was inaccurate...

Sudan.

maybe I didn't comprehend correctly....I guess she was saying would it be ok if we won at that cost....but boy it's close, that first sentence got me. there is the insinuation that CNN is keeping the soldiers morality in check as regards to rape at the end.

Sorry GR...I guess that SAT's are better kicked a in the math, however didn't do so well in the English

Did you serve, Wayne?

Rather than using google.com, I have found that I've learned a lot more about it just by talking to the people in this country that have served. (My Dad being one of them.)

I wouldn't consider that modern war. Guess who is the peacekeeping force?


Peace is the only solution to the suffering of the Sudanese people. Recent efforts by the U.S. Special Envoy for Peace in Sudan,

What qualifies as "modern" war, if not a war occurring at this very moment?

I've got to get that clarified before i can comment any further, because if we don't even see the word "modern" in the same way, then it's pointless to further talk about Sudan even though it's the single best example out there.

No Cajun,
I didn't. I was in college (student deferment). Alas, I lost too many friends, and those that returned were either very badly crippled, or saw the folly of their actions and organized the local college branch of Vets Against the War.
I was in the Students Mobilization to End the War.
Sidenote, my son's girl friend is a psychology post grad doing counseling with returned vets from Iraq, her thesis is about post traumatic stress disorder.
Too many stories to tell.
There has to be a better way. There has to be.
If we are unable to find that way, we'll only continue to cause others to suffer, as we do ourselves.

I'm not talking that it occurs in the modern era....

War is ugly, I don't like it...so don't mistake me for a war monger. Modern...rules of engagement, ethical treatment of POW's...etc. Geneva convention.

and yes I'm aware some of these statutes have been broken by our own country.

that's where we're not connecting here, is that your definition of modern war renders this entire conversation moot. if, in order to be a modern war, people have to follow those rules -- then there is no such thing as modern war because that will never be entirely achieved by any army from any country in a full-fledged war. In your definition of modern war, rape does not exist because everyone is polite and follows the "rules" -- so because rape does still exist as a tactic of war, what then do we consider to be modern war?

I think we're closer than it appears, of course it can't be entirely achieved, but is the Sudan different as a civilized nation and does that civil war have anything in common with war in Iraq, other than it is ugly and sensless? I think it's clear it's ordered in Sudan. Are the minority of US soldiers that commit rape doing this to gain a tatical advantage on the enemy? Or is it a result of the stress and horror, maybe underlying character in some?

Brian,
Sometimes we get bogged down about splitting hairs.
Is it worse to rape someone or just kill them?
Maybe burning with napalm makes sense, or cluster bombs, or mines.
Do we really need to qualify the level of barbarism to make it saleable?
Does it make us feel more righteous?
Some people have numbed their consience to the tragedy.
They'll dig their heels in an try to continue to convince others of the validity of the actions they support.
Yet, they remain silent on the question of "victory".
Cemetaries are very quiet places.

you've got me all wrong DTS, you really do. But I've always liked you since ESPN....your compassion is relentless and that's admirable.

I'm really sorry you feel the way you do about me...I want them home too.

If someone could quote me on this, I'd appreciate it, I think he has me on ignore.