Not only was the rail very biased, and for you guys who dont think so I will never believe anything you post about horse racing, but the tracked sucked and took the life of Pine Island and injured Fleet Indian

Lehr should get a new job.

I never posted that and I am not this person you think I am. Not that it matters. The Big A had a real nice two year old allowance race over the weekend. Sagamoon looked very impressive. I could see this horse making a little noise in the future.

If it were just Thor's Echo, there would be plenty of doubt. Just like there is plenty of doubt that coming off a big top creates an automatic toss. I certainly don't buy that line of thinkiing.

Thor's Echo has done nothing wrong all year. He was one of the most likely horses to win that race. The bias may have increased the margin he won by, but chances are he would still have won.

--Dunbar

Especially since it was the second race off a layoff which often leads to a big race. It is called bounce THEORY for a reason. In reality what is perceived as a bounce is really just regression to the mean after a big race.

Actually, I have heard and read it's 3rd off the layoff that's the best and produces the best results...

Yes, a bounce is sometimes a regression back to the mean, but his mean was not good enough to win the race, his best was, but he ran his best by a large margin in the last race and was set for a bounce...It's a theory and sometimes doesn't hold true, because these are horses not machines...

Like I said, if my laptop wasn't broken I would go back and watch the race, but I believe there was a definite rail bias, I read somewhere that they fixed the track after the Distaff(if this is incorrect someone say so), maybe that's why Invasior and Bernardini weren't effected by it...

Let's see how some of these come back and run, I think Scuds pointed out one that won already while racing wide, I think we will see many more...

"Under a beautifully judged ride by jockey Corey Nakatani, Thor's Echo saved ground while chasing embattled leaders Bordonaro and Attila's Storm down the backstretch, angled out three wide before eventually wresting control at the top of the stretch, then drew off with complete authority. Friendly Island also benefited from his inside post, saving ground into the stretch before easing out and outfinishing fellow longshot Nightmare Affair by a half-length for second."-DRF

"At first we were really down about drawing the rail but after watching the earlier races we really started to get excited because it was obvious the rail was the place to be and we even started joking about how we could probably sell that post for good money before the race,"-O'Neill


"When we talked to Corey in the paddock me and the owners both said at the same time to just stay on the rail," O'Neill explained. "And even though the post helped, Corey did a fantastic job maneuvering him out like he did."

Nakatani said he wanted to stay on the rail as long as he could but once leaving the backstretch had no choice but to angle out and go after the leaders.On the turn I had so much horse that if I had stayed on the rail much longer I would have run over the ones in front of me," said Nakatani
"As we got to the quarter pole I decided we should just go and put the race away now."-DRF

That would mean he should be sitting on a big one in the De Francis then unless you think the last two have taken a lot out of him.

That previous form was from early in the year which was essentially the extension of a long 3yo season, it isn't like he was running a 106 all year and then suddenly pulled off a 116. He could have just badly needed a break and some time to mature into a very good 4yo.

"..On the day of the Breeders' Cup, however, the inside part of the track was clearly an advantage; four of the five championship races run on the dirt were won by the horse breaking from the No. 1 post position. Dreaming of Anna led all the way to win the Juvenile Fillies as Octave followed her along the rail to finish second. Street Sense hugged the rail as he rallied to upset the Juvenile, paying $32.40. Round Pound, a 14-1 shot, stayed near the rail and won the Distaff, paying $29.80. The Sprint produced a $965.80 exacta that could only be explained by its winning post position numbers: 1 and 2.

Horses who tried to rally in the middle of the track seemed to lose their momentum and were outkicked by horses nearer the rail. Invasor was the only one able to win with an outside rally, but even he had managed to stay near the inside until he turned into the stretch. Trainer Kiaran McLaughlin rightly hailed the effort by jockey Fernando Jara: "It was an exceptional ride from the 11 post. To get over and be in the two-path round the first turn was unbelievable."-ANDY BEYER

I am not looking at Beyers, Thorographs go pull them up they are free...

Depending on when the DeFrancis is, it may not matter, it's 3rd start off of a layoff of 60 days or more, if the Defrancis is in February, he'll be plenty ready to roll...I believe he bounced in the BC, but his rail aided trip, he still got it done...

"Horses who tried to rally in the middle of the track seemed to lose their momentum and were outkicked by horses nearer the rail."-Beyer

"Horses who tried to rally in the middle of the track seemed to lose their momentum and were outkicked by horses nearer the rail."-Beyer

"Horses who tried to rally in the middle of the track seemed to lose their momentum and were outkicked by horses nearer the rail."-Beyer

"Horses who tried to rally in the middle of the track seemed to lose their momentum and were outkicked by horses nearer the rail."-Beyer

"Horses who tried to rally in the middle of the track seemed to lose their momentum and were outkicked by horses nearer the rail."-Beyer

I'm sure the thorographs show a similar trend, was fairly consistent before the layoff and came back much improved.

The DeFrancis is this weekend.

If it's this weekend, he should be okay, because I believe his bounce race was in the BC...

I'll look tonight at the Thoro's and get back to you tomorrow, I have a pretty good memory, from what I remember it was about a 4 point top if not more, but I'll admit if I was wrong on that...

Say it again. I didn't hear you!

"Horses who tried to rally in the middle of the track seemed to lose their momentum and were outkicked by horses nearer the rail."-Beyer

"Horses who tried to rally in the middle of the track seemed to lose their momentum and were outkicked by horses nearer the rail."-Beyer

Nope its not coming through. LOL!

repeatledy quoting Beyer?

He went two deep to find Ouija Board.

He found nothing else on BC Day.

What's he gonna say?

.. or else Brother Derek was not going to compete seriously going 10f and got carried by the bias.

I've heard it both ways.

He is gunna agree with Oracle,Myself,Doug O'neil,the owners of Thor's Echo,Corey Nakatani,Steve Byk,the owner of FLEET INDIAN,Joey(Ateam,)randallscott35,Lansdon Robbins etc.etc.etc.

Juf Filly... top3
Dream Anna... 4w early. hard to say she was bias aided. hard to say not.
Octave ... did ride inside
Cotton Blossom.... 4w, 5w

http://www.drf.com/drfPDFChartRacesI...=cd1104030.pdf