Derby Trail Forums - Top Thoroughbreds (2000 to present)

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Indian Charlie

12-14-2012 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 906610)

It's a shame Artax was wasted in sprint races, I suppose.

When he was drilling superstar sprinters like Kona Gold and Big Jag while breaking Mr. Prospector's track record at GP and running monster number after monster number ... he could have been doing so much more in route races.

That's not my point at all, and you know that.

He was an all around freak. I don't know how he'd have done on turf, but he reminded me a bit of Ack Ack, a forgotten wonder horse.

Indian Charlie

12-14-2012 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 906557)

2yo Male: Uncle Mo, War Pass, Macho Uno, Stevie Wonderboy
2yo Female: Tempera, Storm Flag Flying, Halfbrideld, My Miss Aurelia
2yo Turf Male: Barbaro, Peace Rules, Interactif, Cowboy Cal
2yo Turf Female: Dreaming of Anna, J'Ray, Fantastic Filly, Winter Memories
2yo Male Sprinter: Officer, Came Home, Afleet Alex, Roman Ruler
2yo Female Sprinter: Cashier's Dream, Beholder, You, Hot Dixie Chick,

3yo Male: Smarty Jones, Tiznow, Point Given, Bernardini
3yo Female: Rachel Alexandra, Rags To Riches, Blind Luck, Royal Delta
3yo Turf Male: Kitten's Joy, Conduit, High Chaparral, Rock Of Gibraltor,
3yo Turf Female: Banks Hill, Ouija Board, Goldikova, Six Perfections
3yo Male Sprinter: Caller One, Squirtle Squirt, Lost In The Fog, Cajun Beat
3yo Female Sprinter: Xtra Heat, Indian Blessing, Madcap Escapade, Lady Tak
Older Male: Ghostzapper, Mineshaft, Medaglia D' Oro, Congaree
Older Female: Zenyatta, Azeri, Havre De Grace, Riboletta,
Older Turf Male: Fantastic Light, Leroidesanemeaux, Wise Dan, English Channel,
Older Turf Female: Godikova, Ouija Board, Golden Apples, Voodoo Dancer
Older Male Sprinter: Kona Gold, Midnight Lute, Swept Overboard, Fabulous Strike
Older Female Sprinter: Groupie Doll, Xtra Heat, Honest Lady, Informed Decision,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 906614)

Indian Charlie's list would be made up of mostly all cripples. Which is fine, if you don't consider durability an important trait.

Kind of like the horses above in bold?

Indian Charlie

12-14-2012 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 906611)

Bodemeister isn't on the list. I rated him the 4th best 3yo since 2010 even though I think he was the most talented.

Candy Ride had one great performance on dirt and one on turf ... part of being a great horse means coming back from big performances and repeating them.

Yeah, I know Bodemeister wasn't on THAT list, but you did put him on the other list. I didn't realize you changed your criteria from one list to the other though. My bad.

Also, part of being a great horse is being able to run races that nobody else can duplicate. I'd hardly call most of those horses on your list 'great'.

Maybe you meant to say something else instead of great, as the title of your thread would suggest.

Top thoroughbreds.

You are being silly if you really believe Candy Ride was not better than some of those you listed.

Calzone Lord

12-14-2012 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 906620)

Kind of like the horses above in bold?

No.

For starters ... Uncle Mo, War Pass, and Stevie Wonderboy were healthy for their entire 2yo season.

Only an idiot considers the after career when they rate 2-year-olds.

You rate 2yo's on 2yo form.

Danzig

12-14-2012 11:47 AM

if you're going to list gz, i guess you could also include candy ride. he had 11 lifetime starts, not a picture of good health and soundness.

Calzone Lord

12-14-2012 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 906621)

You are being silly if you really believe Candy Ride was not better than some of those you listed.

His Pacific Classic might be rated better than their best race.

He has no body of work though. Just an alw race, a good turf win, and a great effort on dirt in the Pac Classic.

Is Bo Jackson rated better than Emmit Smith?

Calzone Lord

12-14-2012 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 906623)

if you're going to list gz, i guess you could also include candy ride. he had 11 lifetime starts, not a picture of good health and soundness.

Ghostzapper is going to be rated a clear-cut #1 on the list of anyone with any credibility.

He has five sensational races from five starts as an older horse...ranging from 7f to 10f ... shipped from New York, to New Jersey, to Texas.

Candy Ride's alw win on dirt was nothing special. His turf win was very good, but hardly great. His Pacific Classic was his breakout race. He never returned after it.

Calzone Lord

12-14-2012 12:06 PM

Here is the contrast between Ghostzapper and Candy Ride:

Ghostzapper:

He got herded out to the hotdog stand by Saint Liam in the Woodward and probably would have been the winner via DQ had he not won the race. It was a LONG way back to 3rd.

Candy Ride:

An alw race, a turf race, a huge Pacific Classic win in a small field and he never came back from it.

Indian Charlie

12-14-2012 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 906632)

Here is the contrast between Ghostzapper and Candy Ride:

Ghostzapper:

He got herded out to the hotdog stand by Saint Liam in the Woodward and probably would have been the winner via DQ had he not won the race. It was a LONG way back to 3rd.

Candy Ride:

An alw race, a turf race, a huge Pacific Classic win in a small field and he never came back from it.

Please show these PPs again but include the first three finishers.

golfer

12-14-2012 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 906632)

Here is the contrast between Ghostzapper and Candy Ride:

Ghostzapper:

He got herded out to the hotdog stand by Saint Liam in the Woodward and probably would have been the winner via DQ had he not won the race. It was a LONG way back to 3rd.

Candy Ride:

An alw race, a turf race, a huge Pacific Classic win in a small field and he never came back from it.

Ghostzapper's races are OBVIOUSLY better, as charts are in LARGE, EASY TO READ print. Candy Ride, I have to squint and use a magnifying glass;)

Calzone Lord

12-14-2012 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 906642)

Please show these PPs again but include the first three finishers.

Ghostzapper's wins:

Met Mile over Silver Wagon and Sir Shackleton

BC Classic over Roses in May and Pleasantly Perfect

Woodword over Saint Liam and Bowman's Band (Groupie Doll's sire)

Iselin over Presidentialaffair and Zoffinger

Tom Fool over Aggadan and Unforgettable Max

Candy Ride's wins:

Pacific Classic win over Medaglia D' Oro and Fleetstreet Dancer.

American Handicap win over Special Ring and Irish Warrior

Alw race over Primerica and Bonus Pay Day

Calzone Lord

12-14-2012 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfer (Post 906645)

Ghostzapper's races are OBVIOUSLY better, as charts are in LARGE, EASY TO READ print. Candy Ride, I have to squint and use a magnifying glass;)

I sent Indian Charlie a ton of PP's for good foreign horses. My computer crashed a few months later. He has them and I don't.

This is all I have left for Candy Ride:

Calzone Lord

12-14-2012 01:15 PM

parsixfarms

12-14-2012 01:31 PM

I like most of the lists. A few horses that I would consider for inclusion:

2YO male sprinter: Cuvee.

2YO turf filly: Melhor Ainda.

3YO turf male: War Chant.

Older male sprinter: Speightstown.

golfer

12-14-2012 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 906651)

I sent Indian Charlie a ton of PP's for good foreign horses. My computer crashed a few months later. He has them and I don't.

This is all I have left for Candy Ride:

Coincidence? Doubt it.

I'm with you on Ghostzapper. Just wish he could have run more frequently.

cmorioles

12-14-2012 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 906602)

Artax was far from being just a sprinter.

He was probably a better router actually.

That is just being ridiculous.

Calzone Lord

12-14-2012 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 906652)

Look at the gaps from 2nd place to 3rd place in those races. All of those races fractured.

cmorioles

12-14-2012 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 906602)

Artax was far from being just a sprinter.

He was probably a better router actually.

That is just being ridiculous.

His precociousness kept him competitive at routes when he was young. He would have had little shot later on at top levels in routes.

helicopter11

12-14-2012 03:37 PM

Why did Candy Ride have 3 different jockeys in the 3 US starts?
Its not like the horse lost or the other jocks had better mounts

helicopter11

12-14-2012 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 906651)

I sent Indian Charlie a ton of PP's for good foreign horses. My computer crashed a few months later. He has them and I don't.

This is all I have left for Candy Ride:

This PP shows Candy ride as the #2 and Megdalio D'Oro in bold. Was this a 2003 BC Classic early edition?

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