I dont care about their health or well being.
i did not say I dont care about them.
I certainly care about how fast they run and their pari-mutuel wagering price.

another analogy.
i like film.
i like watching Ed Norton or Natalie Portman act on film.
But I dont give a damn about their health, happiness, or general well being in real life.
they can live or die. makes no difference to me.



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Kev, You and I are both fans of English Channel. As you know, I tried to buy him before anyone had heard of him. I tried to buy him back when he was only an allowance horse. Even though we are both fans of the horse, you know as well as I do that he's not the best turf horse in the country. He just ran 4th in two of his last three races. He didn't have any real excuse in either race. He would have obviously liked a little more pace in his last race but you can't use that as an excuse because he was actually losing ground in the stretch. As big a fan as youa re of the horse, I'm sure you would be the first to admit that he's not the best turf horse in the country right now.

yeah,
i know he did.
I was wrong again.
Librettist is a favorite of mine.
Although I do have respect for GW, if they meet again in the BCM, I think we get the better of him.
but thats just me very biased opinion.

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oh,
so you throw out the Woodforf Reserve and UN?
wtf are you thinking?
on firm ground, he is the best 12f US turf horse.
Cacique is a really nice horse and might be better on both of Belmont's turf courses, but EC has the better chance to win at 12f at CD.


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I thought you were talking about the last time he ran in the BC Turf which was in 2003. Now I realize you were talking about 2002. Fair enough.

I still don't think it's logical to handicap the horse based on what he did 4 year ago. I think what he's done this year is a little more relevant. He's run 5 times this year and he's won 4 out of 5. His only lost was his 2nd place finish in the $5 million Dubai race to David Junior. I think he is coming into the race this year with pretty good credentials running 2nd in that $5 million race and winning the Arlington Million.

I'm not saying he's going to win the race this year, but he is ceratinly a legitimate contender. He's the best turf horse in the country right now. I do think he's probably a little better horse at 1 1/4 miles.

Im not saying what he did 3 or 4 years ago is a handicapping tool,
Im just saying he was a better horse in the past and lost in what was a weaker field with easier circumstances than what he will face on Nov 4 at CD.

hes not all that great at 12 and the race in Dubai was barely over a mile.

if you are impressed by that Arl Million race, then good luck to you.
those were just plain stupid fractions.



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that's true...but i can never forget war emblems preakness. everyone knew what he had done to win the derby...and then they watched him go out and do it again in md. ooops.

thing is, tin man could easily do it again. run him down early, wear him out, and you might find yourself backing up as well late.

I'm not throwing out those races but if he's so great he wouldn't be running 4th every other race. You can hardly use the excuse about firm ground. EC's record is better when the turf is not firm. His win in that $400,000 race at Churchill in May was on turf labeled "soft". His win in the stakes race at Gulfstream this year was on turf labeled "soft". Last year, he won three races on tracks labeled either "good" or "yielding". His record on turf courses labeled "firm" is not nearly as good.

but weren't both of english channels losses at 10f? remember sulamani in the arl million a couple years back? class of the field, but the distance was far from his best. three horses finished ahead of him i believe.

you misunderstand me again.
I did not say he needed or was better on firm.

I said, in those conditions, he is America's best turf horse.
freaking read what I type w/out reading into it what you want.

and that 4th in the Manhattan was a very good effort.
all 4 finished together.

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yeah,
but this kind of goes back to my 2002 point.

he set those slow fractions at Arlington.
and still lost to horses that are not near as good as what he will face on Nov 4 at CD.

High Chaparral was the only real international Grade 1 horse in that field.
With Anticipation was just the best of a bad US bunch.

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Does English Channel own a victory at 12 furlongs?

no,
barely lost to Shakes at Belmont last year in the Turf Invite at 12f and ran the best race out of US horses in the BCT.

won at 11f at Monmouth.

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How was his 4th place finish in New york a good effort? He lost to Silver Whistle and Sabre d' Argent that day. I don't think that effort would get the job done in the BC Turf.

By the way, the race in Dubai was 1 1/4 miles.

With regard to the Arlington Million, The Tin Man was obviously the best horse. Cacique was within a neck of him at the quarter pole and then Tin Man blew his away. It would be one thing if The Tin Man was out there with a 3 length lead and then barely held off the closers. That's not what happened. He pulled away from them in the stretch. He had a better late kick than the closers. He would have won the race no matter what the pace scenario was.

So the best american horse at 12 furlongs has never actually won at the distance?
Doesn't say much about the American Turf Horses.

He's not as good as The Tin Man right now. Look at what The Tin Man has done this year. He's 4 for 5 with a win in the Arlingto Million and a 2nd to David Junior in a $5 million race. You can't even compare EC to the The Tin Man right now.

well,
Aragorn is awesome.
not going to run against EC in the BC, but yes, oif they met at a midde distance of 9f, Aragorn would win.

Cacique is a really nice horse who I really thought was the best middle distance turf horse..
Kev will tell you I always said he was better than EC even after the Woodford Reserve.
but EC's Manhattan was impressive to me (even in defeat) and the UN was awesome.
that made me a believer.


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