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-   -   why does Mike Smith get so much bash on forums? (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47815)

handicapperernie 08-07-2012 11:32 AM
since someone who's in the hall of fame doesn't it make you a legend? if you look at mike's career he is a legend.

cmorioles 08-07-2012 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 881137)
my contention is Hansen might have run better running the fractions Tapizar did if it got him loose, and 8.5 to 9.0 just is not the huge distance gap in my mind that you are making it out. He certainly was not done in because he tracked 2wide on that pace.
It actually is a pretty big difference pace wise. The difference between the two distances at the 1/2 mile call is more than a half second.

I tend to agree about the "loose" part, though there is no indication that going faster would have led to him being loose. If the rider on the other horse had it in his plans that Hansen wasn't getting away, he wouldn't get away.

my miss storm cat 08-07-2012 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by handicapperernie (Post 881139)
since someone who's in the hall of fame doesn't it make you a legend? if you look at mike's career he is a legend.
Respectfully, no. Being in the Hall of Fame doesn't make one a legend.

Not to me anyway.

fpsoxfan 08-07-2012 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by handicapperernie (Post 881139)
since someone who's in the hall of fame doesn't it make you a legend? if you look at mike's career he is a legend.
That means Kent Desormeaux is a legend?

my miss storm cat 08-07-2012 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fpsoxfan (Post 881143)
That means Kent Desormeaux is a legend?
Hahahaha I just came back to say that, mindreader. :p

Look Mr. Ernie Sir i refuse to be spoonfed by some committee because in any given year someone got the most votes.

It's like the Eclipse awards or any awards. Take it for what it is and no more.

handicapperernie 08-07-2012 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fpsoxfan (Post 881143)
That means Kent Desormeaux is a legend?
kent is an icon but idk about legend? even though he holds a record for most wins in a year. dominated the maryland, southern california and east coast circuits. winner of 3 kentucky derbies and 3 breeders cups. he's had a great career but he's at the twilight of his career though. won 3 eclipse awards including 2 for outstanding jockey (1989 and 1992) and one for outstanding apprentice (1986 or 87 i believe)

handicapperernie 08-07-2012 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by my miss storm cat (Post 881142)
Respectfully, no. Being in the Hall of Fame doesn't make one a legend.

Not to me anyway.
icon or legend depends on what kind of career they've had.

going back to mike smith, he's had 2 eclipse awards.

pointman 08-07-2012 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by handicapperernie (Post 881139)
since someone who's in the hall of fame doesn't it make you a legend? if you look at mike's career he is a legend.
Calvin Borel was considered to be in the Hall of Fame. Need I say more?

my miss storm cat 08-07-2012 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by handicapperernie (Post 881151)
icon or legend depends on what kind of career they've had.

going back to mike smith, he's had 2 eclipse awards.
Doug Whyte has won champion jockey in HK 12 times.

He is breathtakingly good in an overflowing sea of extremely talented riders.

He comes close. He is the first and really only current rider off the top of my head who comes close.

Champion? YES. Legend?

Problem is legend should mean just that. It's not some cheap word that should be tossed around

Mike and Kent, Kent and Mike... no. They don't cut it for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pointman (Post 881157)
Calvin Borel was considered to be in the Hall of Fame. Need I say more?
Boom! :D :tro:

Danzig 08-07-2012 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 881108)
I can never figure out why people care so much about jockeys.

Smith is way overrated at this stage of his career. He's losing triple the takeout over his last several hundred rides.

Junior Alvarado just won 4 stakes races at Saratoga last weekend -- and he didn't even ride in a lot of others like the Whitney and Vanderbilt...but you'll never read anyone write a word about him...because people who waste time with jockeys often know almost nothing about horses and only focus on the handful of fashionable big name jockeys.
:tro:

handicapperernie 08-07-2012 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pointman (Post 881157)
Calvin Borel was considered to be in the Hall of Fame. Need I say more?
Calvin is not even hall of fame yet!! Calvin is mediocre even when does well at Churchill Downs. But I have a feeling he maybe hall of fame like due to his profile of derby wins and breeders cup win

Danzig 08-07-2012 12:13 PM
hof entry in no way makes one a legend.

pointman 08-07-2012 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by handicapperernie (Post 881161)
Calvin is not even hall of fame yet!! Calvin is mediocre even when does well at Churchill Downs. But I have a feeling he maybe hall of fame like due to his profile of derby wins and breeders cup win
I didn't say he was, but I would not be shocked if he manages to get in. Aren't you arguing against yourself here?

gamblin4ever 08-07-2012 01:41 PM
A Legend is used for comparison of others over a career,(Michael Jordan for example). I don't see people comparing other jockeys to the GREAT Mike Smith.
I'm not doubting that he USED to be a very good jockey, just he isn't a Legend either.

Now on a lighter side I bash Smith for not keeping hold of Chantel. :D

Danzig 08-07-2012 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pointman (Post 881163)
I didn't say he was, but I would not be shocked if he manages to get in. Aren't you arguing against yourself here?
:tro:

handicapperernie 08-07-2012 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamblin4ever (Post 881188)
A Legend is used for comparison of others over a career,(Michael Jordan for example). I don't see people comparing other jockeys to the GREAT Mike Smith.
I'm not doubting that he USED to be a very good jockey, just he isn't a Legend either.

Now on a lighter side I bash Smith for not keeping hold of Chantel. :D
riding legend would be like laffit pincay jr or bill shoemaker realistically speaking since you said michael jordan

GPK 08-07-2012 07:42 PM
Mike has lost it...and lost it quite some time ago, but I will always have a soft spot for him the perfect ride he gave Giacomo in the Derby.

helicopter11 08-07-2012 08:07 PM
The last legend to retire was Jerry bailey. Though Mike Smith has won a lot of big money races, he is inconsistent on a day to day basis.

Danzig 08-07-2012 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by helicopter11 (Post 881270)
The last legend to retire was Jerry bailey. Though Mike Smith has won a lot of big money races, he is inconsistent on a day to day basis.
in his own mind! never cared for him.

what about laffit pincay? hated the way he went out, that was a shame.

RockHardTen1985 08-07-2012 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 881279)
in his own mind! never cared for him.

what about laffit pincay? hated the way he went out, that was a shame.
Bailey, not a legend? He is one of the best ever.


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