I seem to recall things a little differently.

I agree with what you're saying, I'm just saying that it almost seems you have a personal vendetta against the horse lol.

And as for my avatar- it could be worse, I could have a Dynaformer avatar I suppose ;p

I haven't seen scavs in awhile, but I'd much prefer a Dynaformer avatar of any type to a scavs avatar with Big Brown.

I never bet a race that Dynaformer was involved in. I've been a fan of a few of his offspring. I have no vendetta against him.

Try to judge everything with as much detachment as possible from everything but facts.

I don't have an axe to grind with Man O' War and I don't have a personal bias to Discovery (a horse I knew almost nothing about a few years ago) ... a detachment from BS and love of facts might make it appear that way though.

Are there other cases of sires having that kind of luck (or overachieving from a breeding standpoint based on their mediocrity when they raced?)after not being very good on the track?

Someone told me that Danzig was unraced? True?

Danzig was 3-for-3 on the track -- never raced against stakes company. Fragile, unproven, but talented horse and obviously a great sire.

And yes, of course there have been plenty of excellent stallions who weren't much as race horses. They appear through all time peroids of racing history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIXV-mHds5w

Distorted Humor was a pretty nice racehorse, but he's far exceeded expectations as a stallion.

Yukon was unraced and produced some pretty useful runners. He was exceptionally well bred however, and clearly was going to get at least a chance at stud.

West Acre was unraced and has been a nice stallion.

City Zip has far exceeded expectations, despite his impressive race career.

Malibu Moon only had two starts, but in my eyes at that time, he was freakishly good.

Unusual Heat.

There are plenty more, but Dynaformer would seem to be more extreme than most others.

As you mentioned, Unusual Heat was a claimer. Saint Ballado has developed into an elite sire -- he wasn't much as a race horse. Horses from his crop like Pistols and Roses and Technology had their way with him in 3yo stakes races where he ran mid-pack.

You go back through history -- some of the better sires were initally pulling a cart through a street, working as teasers, or basically just rose from neglect and obscurity by accident.

The stallion Virgil was initally a cart horse pulling a wagon -- basically a car in the days before the automobile. He was called into service as a makeshift stallion once the farms main stallion fell ill suddently -- and a gelded son of his from his first crop named Vagrant won the Kentucky Derby.

All of a sudden, Virgil was given a fair chance and he responded by siring many great horses like Kentucky Derby winners Hindoo and Ben Ali -- as well as the legendary 2yo Tremont and many other top ones like Vigil and Vera Cruz. He basically went from buggy horse -- to siring Ky Derby winners and great 2yo's left and right.

A lot of other great stallions were basically just sprinters.

Saint Ballado had, at least in my eyes, a very promising beginning to his career as a racehorse. If I recall, he was rushed prematurely into the Derby and just never was the same.

Plus, he was an exceptionally bred horse, being a full to two total freaks, Glorious Song (dam of Rahy) and Devil's Bag.

I thought his potential as a stallion was very high.

His full bro Devil's Bag was 12 lengths more race horse -- and 12 lengths less sire.

Yeah.

However, Devil's Bag was one of the most brilliantly gifted race horses of the last 30 years, so there is no shame in it.

I saw SB run back then, he was a very nice horse.