Derby Trail Forums - Genting sponsorship boosts Wood purse to $1,000,000

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Still seeing an abundance of stakes races with 6-8 horses.

That sucks. No matter how you try to spin it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTM Al (Post 761464)

Hill Prince was rained off the turf, so nothing abnormal about that one

Thx Al.. I should have gone back to look at it, but obviously going through the nearly 100 charts was enough of an exersize.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants (Post 761467)

Still seeing an abundance of stakes races with 6-8 horses.

That sucks. No matter how you try to spin it.

Not spinning anything. Was relaying a reality v. impression situation.

Would it be nice to get at least 8 in every stake? Yes. But let's face it, there are too many stakes in the National Stakes Book, and too few quality horses to go around. And the proximate scheduling conflicts of like distance/condition in stakes remain maddening. One thing is clear from looking at those stakes... turf racing works overtime boosting the overall entry scene.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 761471)

Which opens up a whole 'nother can of worms. More turf racing and an increased focus on turf breeding.

Good luck with that fight. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 761460)

That merits asking the question, "What constitutes a trend"? (And a disturbing trend at that...) Let's go back a full calendar year and look at the entries and scratches in NY's graded stakes. There may be a few more 5 horse fields entered and running than you hope for, (a total of 9 of 96 actually), but there isn't much by way of fact the last 13 months to support the 'disturbing trend' moniker.

Red represents races that scratched down to less than 5 runners. There were 3.. and notably, 2 were 2 year old races (Special & Hopeful). There were another 3 races that scratched to 5 horses.. 2 of those 2 year old events (Nashua & Demoiselle) The average number of horses entered into NY stakes is 8 and the average number of scratches is 1.

Stake: Entered (Scratched)

Toboggan 5 (0)
Gotham 10 (0)
Cicada 9 (0)
Exselsior 6 (1)
Bay Shore 7 (1)
Carter 6 (0)
Wood 6 (0)
Comely 8 (0)
Distaff 6 (1)
Withers 6 (1)
Fort Marcy 10 (2)
Beauguay 8 (0)
Dwyer 7 (0)
Shuvee 5 (0)
Sheepshead Bay 8 (1)
Vagrancy 7 (1)
Sands Point 8 (1)
Met Mile 8 (0)
Hill Prince 8 (5) OFF THE TURF
Brooklyn 8 (0)
Woody Stephens 5 (0)
True North 10 (2)
Acorn 13 (1)
Manhattan 11 (0)
Belmont 12 (0)
Phipps 5 (0)[i]
New York 7 (2)[B
]Mother Goose 5 (0)
Suburban 7 (0)
Prioress 5 (0)
Bed of Roses 8 (0)
Man O'War 8 (0)
Jaipur 7 (0)
Schylerville 7 (1)
CCAO 8 (2)
Sanford 8 (0)
Lake George 15 (3)
Jim Dandy 9 (1)
Diana 7 (0)
Fourstardave 12 (5)
Ruffian 6 (0)
Amsterdam 10 (1)
Test 10 (1)
Whitney 6 (0)
Hon. Miss 5 (0)
Vanderbilt 7 (0)
Hall of Fame 7 (1)
Sword Dancer 10 (1)
ADK 10 (0)
Special 6 (2)
Alabama 6 (0)
Lake Placid 6 (3) OFF THE TURF
Baruch 8 (1)
Victory Ride 8 (1)
Ballston Spa 10 (0)
King's Bishop 8 (0)
Travers 11 (0)
Personal Ensign 5 (0)
With Anticipation 12 (2)
Woodward 7 (0)
Forego 11 (2)
Saranac 6 (0)
Glens Falls 10 (2)
Hopeful 7 (3)
Bowling Green 11 (4)
Garden City 8 (1)
Noble Damsel 8 (0)
Gallant Bloom 9 (1)
Beldame 5 (0)
Vosburgh 9 (0)
Hirsch 11 (2)
Flower Bowl 8 (1)
JCGC 8 (1)
Pilgrim 9 (2)
Miss Grillo 14 (3)
Kelso 8 (1)
Jamaica 11 (0)
Champagne 7 (1)
Frizette 9 (1)
Pebbles 10 (2)
Athenia 12 (3)
Knickerbocker 13 (6) Yielding
Bold Ruler 8 (0)
Turnback the Alarm 9 (1)
Tempted 5 (0)
Nashua 6 (1)
Red Smith 9 (2)
Long Island 7 (1)
Fall Highweight 9 (1)
Top Flight 7 (1)
Remsen 7 (2)
Cigar 9 (0)
Gazelle 8 (1)
Toboggan 8 (3)
Gotham 9 (2)

The last 10 Graded stakes had an 18% scratch rate and for all 96 the scratch rate was 16%. How does that compare vs the Industry standard in graded stakes? It seems high to me.

Overall 20 of 96 races went to post with 5 or less horses which is 21%. Frankly I think a field of 6 is short and we had 32 of 96 or 33%. Do you think that these short races had a negative affect on handle? I'm the customer and you are a company man basically telling me to suck it up.:zz:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 761483)

Actual he is saying until they clip 30% of the stakes this is what you should expect.

Graded turf events should be clipped by 50%

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo (Post 761485)

Actual he is saying until they clip 30% of the stakes this is what you should expect.

Graded turf events should be clipped by 50%

As an exercise I am going to track Entries vs scratches for Graded Stakes to see how NY compares going forward. I won't count Off The Turf races or MTO/AE scratches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 761483)

Excuse me? I'm not telling you to do anything. I simply was curious as to the actual specifics of what was suggested without backup as a 'trend'. I merely pulled up the facts for what could be a more fair evaluation of the realities as opposed to the speculation or presumption.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 761493)

No offense Steveo but for someone in your postion in the media I don't think you are objective to the situation in New York at all. Anytime anyone brings up the short graded stakes situation you respond with what some would take as a defensive position.

Love your passion in spite of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTM Al (Post 761464)

Hill Prince was rained off the turf, so nothing abnormal about that one

The Hill Prince was not off-the-turf in 2010. It marked the day that Nordic Truce was exposed as a mediocrity.

>>>“From the beginning, one of our goals in building the new casino facility at Aqueduct has been to strengthen and support New York’s storied horse racing industry. Through this partnership with NYRA, we have taken a significant step in that direction. This year’s Resorts World New York Casino Wood Memorial is sure to be a spectacular event that will bring out racing enthusiasts and make all of New York proud.”<<<

Peter Carlino was pretty optimistic about PA racing when they were getting ready to hand him the golden ticket to build slot palaces At Penn Nat too.

Didn't take long for that worm to turn.

>>>"Racetracks tend to end up with slots—that’s our long-term play,” Carlino said. “Operating tracks at a loss is not in our long-term plan. We will continue to ratchet down costs—we’ll be tough and brutal about that. We’re not running a public charity.”<<<

I hope Genting is a little more honest in their objectives and goals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 761498)

Appreciate the view. About to start show, so i can't provide a full response, but will suggest that answering speculation with topic-specific data that can be used for wider debate isn't taking a defensive position.

Here's what I "said" on the topic...

"What constitutes a trend"?
There may be a few more 5 horse fields entered and running than you hope for.
There isn't much by way of fact the last 13 months to support the 'disturbing trend' moniker.

That's being defensive?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 761511)

"What constitutes a trend"?
There may be a few more 5 horse fields entered and running than you hope for.
There isn't much by way of fact the last 13 months to support the 'disturbing trend' moniker.

That's being defensive?

My comment goes way beyond this individual event. I have seen you time and time again take the opposite side of the short field in New York debate.