Exactly its a individual concern not something I would consider an industy wide issue.

I personally thought that drawing new bettors into the sport was the most important issue.

You can't expand a sport on a shiiitty base. Fix the sport and the bettors will come

But what exactly does that mean?

I don't think racing - as to how it relates specifically to fans/bettors only - has much of an actual integrity problem Freddy.

You have a few trainers at every circuit who have an edge and seem to be getting over - but it's no secret who most are. There's not much you can do to stop that beyond drug testing. Some athletes and their trainers are getting over in all the other sports as well.

I don't believe people are betting after the bell. Canceling tickets after the start of the race is harder now than before. I don't see anything really suspicious that looks like possible race fixing ever.

there is too much racing and a lot of crappy races that will never interest gamblers unless the rake was so low that expertise would be worthwhile. No national voice or direction is really something that needs to change.

you just had an imposter horse run at Sunland. I watched a horse go from 3/5 to 5/2 at Philly two weeks ago in 20 seconds as the gate opened. the other 3/1 went to 7/5 and jogged. All this as they were in the gate? The track wouldnt even be there if it wasnt for the casino.

I don't disagree with you Freddy, especially with the lack of a national governing body/voice.

As far as too many races go, yeah you are probably right. In some cases less is definitely more (monmouth being a prime example). But not everybody is looking for the ideal (in terms of good racing and betting) situations to wager. I always think back to when I went to NYC OTB's to watch races and think that many people just want the action and don't care what type of horses and races are going off. They were playing whether there was 3 horses in the gate or 13 and couldn't care if it was a 2k claimer or a 5 million dollar Graded Stake. To limit the amount of tracks/races and actual racing days could also hurt the sport by forcing gamblers to put their money in other betting venues on days where there are very limited places to bet horses. That wouldn't be good for the game either.

When I first started to become a racing fan, it was nearly impossible to watch a race. This hasn't changed much with the exception of Keeneland offering live streaming on their website. Having to pay (either through a cable or dish provider) or set up an online account to see live races is silly -- not to mention that most of us still, or not to long ago, had to have multiple accounts or both TVG and HRTV to get all of the tracks we wanted to see. Why are you going to go through all of those troubles if you are only curious about the sport?

I have spent many an hour at OTB on 38thst, Water st, etc. I think finding compulsive gamblers is something racing will always be good at.

finding new players will come only when the game is interesting

Fair enough Nic but were curious about TC horses and or major stakes quality types or did you want to be tickled by today Turf paradise spectacular?

Because someone got over in one quarter horse race at Sunland shouldn't scare anyone into thinking they might be betting on an imposter favorite.


What's crazy about a lot of those big late odds shifts is that you can almost always see them coming by watching exchange market action at Betfair and Ehorsex - Mountaineer and Philly especially. I'm not sure there is anything dirty about them.

Brings us back to what I think is the biggest problem plauging the game.

A horse racing at a major(pursewise anyway) track went from 3/5 to 5/2 while in the gate and you dont think there was monkey business and chicanery?

I'm not aware of the race you're referring to so I have no idea.

Did the horse break bad? Either an absolute flood of money had to come in on another horse - or a large win bet was canceled from the sounds of it.

Remember 2001 and 2002 - when these huge odds plunges kept happened all over? The Monarchos/Invisible Ink entry took like a couple hundred thousand dollar win bet in the Florida Derby at the last second.

Horse should have been 3/1 based on form. The TVG guys were like how the heck is this horse 3/5 as they were in the gate. As the gate opens the 3/1 should be fav goes to 7/5 and the 3/5 goes to 5/2.. 5/2 never competes 7/5 airs by 6.. pure BS that no serious gambler could ever stomach

And how is this chicanery and monkey business?

You say a horse that should be favored anyway was 3/1 - because another horse was appearing to take unsuspected action.

Once the gates opened the odds merely came to what you feel was reality.

I suppose the BS and complaints would come from gamblers who hoped the 3/1 would hold on a horse they assumed should go off at 7/5?

the pools were total manipulated..You know like used too do..lol

You're talking to someone who watches Mountaineer and Charles Town on Saturday nights.

I did it both on thoroughbreds as a teller when I was 18 - and I still do it everytime I visit a dog track.

It was not uncommon for me to have at least over ten thousand dollars worth of canceled tickets on my cash position at the end of a shift. In fact, I might have had a Joe DiMaggio like streak of it going. No one ever said a single thing about it ... and I doubt it even made much difference in helping me get an edge.

One day - all the machines froze and betting was down for a couple of minutes. I had like a couple thousand dollar win bet on a horse I hated in a race coming up in like 15 minutes. I was about to crap my pants and I went back to the money room to see if I could get the ticket canceled by computer when the machines came back up. I canceled the ticket and never did it again.

No sense taking a risk - when you're not sure an edge is even being created from it.

With dog racing - the strategy is to go up and make four win bets of $50 apiece on the four dogs I like least. This drives down the win odds - I go to a teller with 0 MTP - bet about $70 on quinella and trifecta combos involving the dogs I like... cancel the $200 in win tickets and ask for like a $130 voucher back. Basically - I think it's a good way of getting overlayed quinella and trifecta prices. The odds come back to reality right before the rabbit starts moving.

A simple misdirection of my betting competition in an effort to possibly gain an edge. A fine, upstanding tactic to be sure.