Everybody runs there course. Heck they they wanted Paterno out of Penn State for a few years recently. What happened? He had a great season. Where was the talk from before. It happens every year with everyone.

Can we get rid of this thread? Let me re-state this. This thread actually has some good comments.

But can we get the Title change.

At least change it to Lukas Fading! This board shouldn't allow such titles.

Totally agree.
One of his (Phipps) was a beauty named Storm Flag Flying.
Gosh, I loved her.
DTS

i always cheer for phipps horses, black silks, cherry red cap. also any in the yellow of claiborne farm.

storm flag flying was a beauty on the track, very tenacious. hopefully she'll pass on those outstanding genes she inherited from her dam and grand-dam.
SFF's win in the bc filly race was incredible. not something you get to see and enjoy every day.

I used to work at a big tack store pretty close to Santa Anita, Lukas, Baffert, VanBerg and others would frequent the shop. Lukas had placed an order for a custom bit and came in person one day to pick it up. I brought it out and he could tell I was trying to figure the bit out, he smiled and explained what the bit was for and how it worked, he was always like that, very gracious and willing to go the extra mile. I always looked forward to him coming in and would chat about his horses, he is a very classy, charismatic individual. I also have nothing but fond memories of Baffert, VanBerg and Frankel, Baffert would always give us pictures of the horses, Silver Charm, Real Quiet etc.. They are just people like us , with the same feelings and emotions.

I never all of the accomplishments Lukas has. However, I do have a problem with all of the horse he ran into the ground over his career. He is great with 2 and 3 year olds, but I think we can all agree his older horse training pales in comparison. My theory for this goes back to how hard he runs his youngest horses into the ground. He also had every great horse he set his eyes bought and put into his barn for him.
It is possible to look at his career and show respect for all his accomplishments and yet at the same time hate the way he treated many horses. Of course maybe some of this has to do with his owners. If they want to see their horses great at 2 and 3 and don't care about their health or their careers past the age of 3 then Lukas had no choice.

Just thought I would throw this in. Been reading this thread. I thought the job he did with Spain was incredible. Just my opinion.

This is my opinion. I have worked with horses all of my life, and those of you who have not worked with them don't understand how incredibly hard it is to do what trainers like Todd Pletcher, Bob Baffert, Bobby Frankel, Nick Zito, Steve Asmussen, and D. Wayne Luckas (just to name a few) have done. To train that many champions is incredible, and I am not so quick to judge trainers or jockeys anymore because I know first-hand what can go wrong with a horse. Horses are such fragile creatures, and what is worse is they can't tell you when something may be hurting them a little bit. For example, in reality (and don't attack me for this), Barbaro COULD HAVE HAD some sort of an injury before they ever put him in the starting gate that went undetected because some injuries are so hard to find. It is a gamble, and EVERYONE involved with horses usually makes a few huge mistakes in their career just because this is a sport where it is so easy to make mistakes, and it is a sport in which anything can go wrong. Unfortunately, some of those mistakes turn into fatalities or retirements. That is the sport of horse racing...the sport of kings. It is not for the faint-hearted. As for D. Wayne Lukas, he may have over-stepped his boundaries more than normal in the past few years. I must admit that the stunt he pulled with Going Wild last year infuriated me to no end. D. Wayne Luckas may be in a slump, and he may have made some bad desicions in the past few years, but EVERY trainer will go through this sometime in their career. In fact, who am I to judge someone who has given so much to the sport, and who has produced champion after champion after champion? One thing is for sure, I will never forget that terrific run for the Triple Crown that he gave us with Charismatic back in 1999.

I respect you and anyone that has ever worked with horses. I would never try to say I knew 1% of what people who have worked with them know. However, with D.Wayne, I have to stick to my guns. He's had about 10 times more horses break down than any trainer I have ever seen and don't tell me it is because of the volume of horses he ran. Asmussen, Pletcher and others have just as many horses and 1/10th of the amount of horses breaking down as D.Wayne has over the years. Also, the other great trainers that have been mentioned all have great records with older and younger horses. D.Wayne's horses and stats fall apart once he burns the horses up at 2 and 3. Yes, he's had many champions, but bought every horse at every sale that looked like they might have an ounce of talent. How about some of the little trainers out there that never have any talent in their barns that still manage to produce a champion. These are the guys who should be talked about. Also, look at all the great trainers that came out of D.Wayne's stable. I know this is a plus for Lukas as a teacher, but also a minus as to did all the work making some of those past champions.

Also as to Charismatic, remember again, Lukas had him in Maiden Claimer. He had given up on the horse before he ran. How many other great horses might have Lukas have had in his barn if hadn't given up on them right away like he did time and time again?

When Asmussen and Pletcher hit 70 years old, maybe you can tally up all the breakdowns they have had and then make this statement.

Unless you have numbers to prove it, this statement isn't necessarily true.

Do you know how many horses Asmussen has had break down? Pletcher?

What about all the 2 year olds that snapped a leg before they ever race?

1/10th of D. Wayne's breakdowns?

"He's had about 10 times more horses break down than any trainer I have ever seen"

I feel like the above statement is an unqualified one.

Nice posts, oracle.

--Dunbar

now you wanna come at me personally mike(oracle)? you really dont wanna go that route when it comes to "morals". i dont care whether luka$$ wins or loses a 100 races in row the guys still a pr ick at the end of the day. hmmmmmm nobody had no comment bout him being a self cenetered a$ shole and talking the owners into running TCAS in the derby.........gee i wonder why. you also mentioned jordan whos arguably the most successful and greatest athlete ever and played in the city i hailed from. i loved watchin the guy on the court as much as any1 but hes also a cheat off the court amongst other things. just because you got prior success and money doesnt make you a saint as a person.......lol were some of you part of the jury during the oj trial?


hey debbie you really think antley ditched his wife and his unborn? cmon, you get blinded that easily? chris was murdered and the guy you got the hots for gary stevens pretty much believes the same thing amongst other people. allen jerkins is still getting the job done, we had a trainer in a wheelchair saddle a horse in the derby this year and you people wanna use age as a excuse for his decline in his particular profession? of course d wayne dont care how good or bad he does, its not his millions getting flushed down the toilet.


luka$$' comments after "jockey" appeared on hbo just restated how much of a pri ck he is in saying he wouldnt feel sorry for shane sellers or any other jockey who drives 2 mercedes. well without those jocks d wayne dont feel sorry for he wins zero races and doesnt achieve the money and fame he did. you guys can talk 2 me till your blue in your collective faces about him, hes still a a$$hole

Hey guys, It's me richi42. I got tired of that name so I changed it.
Anyway, I totally agree with Playa. We have these debates about Lukas every few months. I know what he's accomplished but there are reasons for it. Last time we discussed this, Landson totally agreed with me that much of Lukas' success in the 1980s had to do with him being several years ahead of the other trainers in terms of pharmocolgy. He was practically the only guy that had all of his 2 year olds on steroids. His 2 year olds were as physically mature as 3 year olds. This gave Lukas a huge edge. His 3 year olds were bigger and stronger than everyone else's.
As I've stated before, nobody breaks down more horses percentage wise. Some of the biggest insurance companies will not insure his horses. What more do you need to know?

I don't know anyone in the business that thinks Lukas is a good trainer. Have any of you been to the track in the morning? Have you seen Lukas' horses train? His horses are so sore it is unbelievable. Everyone just shakes their heads every time they see another one of his horses hobble by.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but not about Eugene Klein. If my memory is correct, Klein totally felt like Lukas duped him and Klein was considering suing Lukas before he died.
As I've said before, Lukas had a lot of good qualities. He was bright, a hard worker, extremely driven, very well organized, had great assistants, was a great salesman, was a great public relations guy, etc. I do think he was good at picking yearlings, but when you have the resources to buy the horses with the best pedigress and the best confirmation, it makes picking yearlings much easier.

I'm sorry but noone cares about junkies Playa, junkies are a dime a dozen and a waste of space on this earth.

.....And he rips into PVal all the time. Dare I say the H word?