Mineshaft was a better horse and for a trainer that wasn't a cheat. How the great DrugS could not see this is beyond me.

Yeah, Dubai Millennium probably would have been beaten by Perfect Drift as well...I used to get a lot more mystified when reading your signature but now I've gotten used to it. DM would have absolutely throttled Mineshaft.

NT

I agree Doug -

Just to add as well that Epsom is the closest a horse will ever get to riding on a rollercoaster - it is just a ridiculous track and you can see every year how it affects plenty of immature horses.

Great horses lose all the time. Sad that some can't realize that.

Mineshaft kind of sucked before he got lasix.

He was a brand new horse with lasix obviously.

His lifetime PP's can be found here from an Illman blog link...

http://community.drf.com/files/discr...e-family-1.pdf

That's nice.

LOL!

McPeek is god!

I recognize that great horses lose all the time. However, I also judge them based on who they beat. The band of horses he beat up on in 2003 was far, far, far from impressive.

NT

They weren't bad ... but when horses like Candy Ride, Medaglia D'Oro, and Congaree are around ... and he's not beating them ... the opposition is going to seem terrible.

Perfect Drift was an excellent horse when he beat Mineshaft - and Mineshaft ran the better race of the two in defeat anyway.

I think Mineshaft (with lasix) might have toyed with Invasor. But yeah, He's obviously not even close to being the best horse since '80 and the collection of horses he beat is not very impressive at all.

We'll never know whether he could've run a 130 Beyer with Frankel now will we...He'll be a hell of a lot better in the shed than Ghostzapper, we all know that.

Secretariat lost 3 times as 3 year old (all those "W" races)--that is all anyone need know on this subject.

As far as Mineshaft goes, very nice horse, but he couldn't carry Spectacular Bid's jock strap (assuming he could have one).

I agree with that, I've never said he was better than Bid.

Fair enough, but you have him in the same sentence--too close for me.

There is a decent enough argument that SB was the greatest American horse of my lifetime, which is now approaching half a century. You can make decent arguments for a very few others as well. Mineshaft is not one of them. As long as we both know that, we're OK.

I agree with all of that.

did Hard Buck finish up the track in the Epsom

quitters never win
and winners never quit

but those that never win and never quit
are idiots

He ran at Ascot. Was 2nd in the Grp I King George.

Wasn't it off like a three day layoff also?

wow, sucked with beyers of 103,104,107 ?
I wonder how many horses have strung together 7 straight beyers of 114 and above. Must be pretty rare.

Maybe he meant before he came to the States

those are some good numbers he ran without lasix
not that lasix does much besides help keep them from bleeding
am I right?

I remember when McPeek was yapping about running Dream Empress in the Oaks over in the U.K.