Couldn't agree more. I don't know if TP and Velazquez didn't really believe that he could rate because he was certainly ridden aggressively from the gate.

NT

This colt is slow and needs a perfect set up. The Florida Derby was a slow race, I wouldn't get to excited about any of these.

So because he gave it up late to two plodders he needs a perfect set up? The horse ran against the race flow and that's worth something, whether you think he's slow or not.

NT

I disagree. I think Ice Box will hit the board in the Derby.

The horse ran ok he is just slow.. I doubt he is less then 30 to 40 to 1 to win derby and after her gets trounced I would think Pletcher gets him to the other derbys and off the triple crown trail

He's not slow. With ground loss I would bet he ran a 0 yesterday thoro. And he has the right breeding to get 10 panels.

He is slow and who cares about browns figs. He told us QR ran the fastest race in TB mordern history. Have a heart. This colt might win the Iowa derby

Sounds similar to Doug's dumb non winners of two at Belmont commen in this thread. We will see.

How much ground did Ice Box lose? Seems to me he got a great ride/trip and set up and only left the inside late on the second turn....when frankly it doesn't even matter.

You know I want to like Ice Box, and am sure rooting for him in the Derby, but let's at least be honest with ourselves.

hes pretty slow compared to pleachers big horse..hes this years friends lake.

Is everyone talking about Rule or Ice Box? I was talking about Rule, which I think Freddy as as well, but then Ice Box came up.

NT

i kind of agree. rule just got beat by horses that were not in the same zip code as pletchers other horse in the fountain of youth...rule looked liked he couldn't get 9 panels let alone 10. ice box looked ok though.

Rule is ok, but it seems fair to say that he wants no real part of 10 furlongs after yesterday, as well as the fact that he appears to be a stone cold speed horse with no ability to rate. As for Ice Box, other than yesterday when the race fell apart, where is Ice Box's fast race? Ice Box is simply slow and will be lucky to run an Imperialsm or Denis of Cork type race in the Derby. 3rd at best. I mean come on, Pleasant Prince was 2nd, and he's awful.

Look you aren't a believer in thoros so it doesn't really matter. I got 2 wide, 7 wide, I'd say with the turns at Gulf that's significant. If my number is right and he ran a 0, he doesn't have to get much faster to win the Derby.

I know I said he was a 50 claimer not to long ago, I still dont think hes that good, little to no impact in the derby IMO.

My response was not to those who don't like him, we all have horses we feel more or less strongly about. What I will say is he isn't slow, especially for this group. His effort yesterday was better than any race Lookin At Lucky, your Derby fave has ever run...It doesn't mean you should like him or bet him, but he isn't slow.

Yeah

When someone looks at the way the FD played out and comes away thinking that the winner or the second horse actually did anything really needs to take the SETUP 101 refresher course. Ice Box couldn't have gotten a better setup and he was stumbling and bumbling and trying to lose it at the end. He's a horse to watch. :rolleyes:

Rule gutted the rest of them (with the exception of Lentenor who tried to run late and just didn't -- he's real good --- just needs a bit more race experience.:rolleyes: )

Really, better than Lookin at Lucky's Rebel?












THUD!

Frankly the Derby is the ultimate set-up race. For every War Emblem nothing pace, there are 5 races with substantial paces to run at b/c you have a 20 horse field.

What was his come home time yesterday? I am curious.

He hasn't shown any speed in his previous races and yesterday was a pace melt down where he picked up the pieces and he still didnt look particularly "fast" doing it. The derby hopefuls have been bad so far so maybe he can build off of this.

Nothing in that race is a serious derby contender in my opinion.